Will this DAC/headphone-amp dongle work with *your* phone? [Fosi Audio DS2]
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Saturday April 6, 2024
David Mellor
David Mellor is CEO and Course Director of Audio Masterclass. David has designed courses in audio education and training since 1986 and is the publisher and principal writer of Adventures In Audio.
@jeffmcnctv: Used it with iPhone. No sound difference. Save your money.
@OBIVancanobi: Пол Маккартни, как ты постарел!😅
@vunguyen2246: Happy with Fosi DS2, DT 770 PRO, HD560s
@Ucarn777: I have a lightning to usb c connector but I get no audio. What do I do to get audio with my DS2?
@10sassafras: I ordered this a week or two ago direct from Fosi with an additional otg lightning cable that they sell. Clearly, Fosi should sell bundles for different phone owners. I use another otg from an iPad to dac that works flawlessly and enables high res streaming from Apple Music.
@CT68: 17:30 I just ordered a DS2, and I really, really wish that the web page, from which I ordered it, stated that it can't be used to make calls. I got it because I'm upgrading my phone, and the new phone doesn't have a DAC like my LG V65 (which has a nice built-in jack.) And you know, you'd think that an audio device that connects to your phone would let you, you know, make calls.
@Jallad.999: Does it suport phone calls?
@AudioMasterclass replies to @Jallad.999: I don't know. When I'm deep in concentration listening to my favourite Mahler symphony, I won't be taking any.
@robotica77: Very useful, I happened to have the same use case, iPhone 11 with the DS2, returning it, doesn't serve the initial purpose.
@dtwings1223: I've bent so many 3.5mm and 2.5mm plugs. I like the durability of the 4.4mm.
@HeliBenj: 20mn of user manual reading ? That was underwhelming…
@AudioMasterclass replies to @HeliBenj: Aha, you probably didn’t notice how I interpreted the specs for those of my viewers who can be bothered to pay attention.
@Alberto.dance.tonight: For and ipad with lightening port. As previouly staed you do need an official apple dongle from my experience the previous advice about using dongle a1619 is a must. To get high resolution music you need to go in settings of apple device select music toggle lossless on and then go to the wireless and celluar selection below and then tap in each one and then select high res lossless. I do it for both options. other wise you will not get the high res coming though the lightening port. Took me an age to get this working with a ds2.
@MetalThrottle: will this be happy with Hifiman Edition XS from the phone ..thank youu
@soundloverbasss: I really disappointed,worst fosi audio ds2, without this dac my samsung a34 direct sound is too good, with this connect to my Sony xb55 earphones I connected,but veryyyy bas bass, worst sounding
@bigbuckoramma: If ever there was a prime example of "Old Farts & Technology", this video is it.
Yes, OTG Cables, SOOOOOOOOO Complicated to understand. 🤣😂🤦♂
First things first, standard Lightening Cables, are POWER ONLY. They do not carry Data. This is designed as a safety feature, because most Apple users dont know not to stick their cable into random charging stations that will strip data off your phone.
So if you want to move Data off the iPhone, you need a specific OTG Cable, that supports both Power AND Data.
If you have an issue with understand that...blame Apple. Or, more specifically, blame Apple Users for being so dumb that Apple had to make their cable Power Only.
Now that we have that out of the way...
The reason why your iPhone 11 didnt work with the Dongle, and probably wouldnt work with half of todays modern HiFi dongles, is because the iPhone 11 doesnt output enough power over the Lightening Port. The reason why your iPad worked, is because the iPad is designed with powering and charging accessories in mind. Things like keyboard covers, and the Apple Pencil. And all of the data functions are enabled by default on the iPad Lightening Ports.
Even slightly older Android Devices, Like the Galaxy S10, or the LG G8, The Google Pixel 3 and 4, and yes, even your older iPhone 11, do not support higher voltage power output to their respective USB or Lightening ports. And they too struggle to have clean audio playback, or even be detected at all, by higher power DAC's. Some smaller Single Ended 3.5mm only all in one dongles, will work with these older devices just fine. Like the Original Apple iPhone Dongle, for example.
It wasnt until the iPhone 12, and the Galaxy S20, and the LG V60 the following year, that suddenly things like "Reverse Power Sharing" where added as features, allowing for higher than 2.2v output on their USB/Lightening ports. And now, on modern phone like the Galaxy S24, they can even Fast Charge from the phones USB port to another connected device. Even the iPhone 15, despite not supporting Fast Charging, now also allows for higher voltage output from its USB3.0 port.
Honestly, you made this WAY more complicated than it needed to be, and drew a lot of inaccurate conclusions on account of being completely technologically unaware. And for someone who likes to get their jollies off of poking fun at other peoples perception inside this Audio Hobby...that's beyond hypocritical.
All that being said the Fosi DS2 is a fantastic DAC for the price. It is very neutral with minimal coloring of the sound, and works for near every genre of music, without any weird filtering or EQing as is common on some other DAC's out there. For ~$50USD, its a steal, and should be a DAC that everyone has in their collection. Especially if you are just getting started in the ChiFi IEM Market.
And as for the 4.4mm output, well it punches significantly more power than the single ended ground of the 3.5mm, and can make things sound a little less muddied as a result on some tracks. And MOST things sound better with more cleaner power behind them. So its more than just placebo effect for the 4.4mm jack. It is also quite a bit stronger physically than the 3.5mm jack, so for mobile listening, I prefer the 4.4mm style. Slap this DAC into a MagSafe Wallet, and you're all set.
@tye0125: does the bose qc ultra support this on iphone
@dave91863: What about daps v dongles ? Is the sound quality noticeable ? For the amount you spend on a dap you can get 10 dongles with different dacs so i would assume dongles are a better option
@grandadgamer8390: I heard some geezer back in the day had an idea called blutooth 😂
@tam8197: none of these dongle dacs work with google pixel android phones, but strangely enough do work with samsung android phones.
@paulstubbs7678: The 'OTG' function allows a phone to output power to run external devices, like this.
@dvmaanen: What I miss here is: How does this thing sound?
@AudioMasterclass replies to @dvmaanen: It sounds good. Did I not say that?
@Nutz0: the big question - does it sound significantly better than the small cheap apple branded iphone dac?
@AudioMasterclass replies to @Nutz0: Ah, typical of those eternal questions that no audiophile has ever been able to answer to the satisfaction of other audiophiles.
@Wuppie62 replies to @Nutz0: Depends on whether you have significantly better ears. ;)
There are iPhone lightning to 3.5mm headphone cable reviews online, if you want to get an idea.
I own an original OnePlus usb-c to 3.5mm cable (built-in DAC) which costs around 10 bucks for my OnePlus Nord phone, and a more expensive (around 100 bucks) Hidisz S9 Pro dongle DAC: the Hidisz dongle sounds better (which it should).
But when I'm outdoors and walking around, I don't use annoying portable devices or ear-/headphones with cables. I just carry my phone in my backpocket and wear 'true wireless iems'. It's about the music ánd convenience, and I don't want to walk around anymore like I'm still in the 80's with my Sony Walkman on my hip and wired headphones. :)
@barlow2976: It was a Fiio dac dongle that opened my eyes, or rather ears, to what's possible. I still use it with my IEMs in the gym, I would now find it impossible to listen without it. No problems with my six year old mid-range Samsung Galaxy.
As a result of that £40 dongle I've spent nearly £1k updating my gear , which comprises some vintage, but all used gear. My Mojo is the star of the show, but these little dangle things represent the biggest improvement in hifi per quid, by a huge amount.
@s_r_v: I use a Hidizs S9 PRO with Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 headphones with a 2.5mm BALANCED Audio Cable connected to my Sony Xperia1iii phone - I listen to flacs of my ripped CD's, the combination sounds very good to me, but the real step up in quality is listening to lossless flacs instead of MP3's, using a balanced cable means it goes really loud if that's important to you, but on my regular commute I use wireless earbuds that support aptx - if you do go wireless then aptx (which allegedly supports 96K) has to be heard to be believed... and once you hear it you can't go back and you start having to re-rip all your CD's from MP3 320 to 16bit 44.1khz - then you start having to buy the latest re-releases of your fave albums - but I never thought I'd be able to get such good audio quality on my bus ride into work... after doing back to back compares between the external DAC and my phones DAC then there's not that much difference, but the phone does get good reviews for audio which is why I got it... however for me, the best way to listen to CD's is via 2 speakers and a sub I just can't get that lot on the bus with me :-)
@izak001: All hedphones that have 2x connector to driver is possible convert to ballanced - for example hifiman sundara etc. ... cable cost about 30$ - of course, same is possible buy over 200$ ... but about 30$ is hi Quality connectors and good wire ... all price up is only paying more for .... ehmmm brand ?
@izak001: This is similar as FIIO KA13 ... but fiio is 2x stronger - yep this drain mobile battery on full level
@karlos543: Any idea if you can get the 4.4 to RCA or is it just as good from the smaller one to RCA's? Modern listening is very confusing for me now!
@nickmoranis2865: I bought a cheapo usb-c to headphone jack for my iPhone and it sounds great. I’m assuming there’s a dac in there.
@mobilgin: Product page states, dynamic range 108 dB . Manual ,in video, states 130 dB......?
@AudioMasterclass replies to @mobilgin: Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.
@rhodaborrocks1654: In the old days we had RS232 serial links, you bought a couple of DB9/25 connectors, decided whether you were using hardware or software flow control and wired them up accordingly, linking out the RS232 signals you weren't using, then you matched the data and stop bits and baud rate at each end and your equipment simply worked, every time. However, many people struggled to understand all that, so along came USB to simplify it, simply plug your device in and everything was taken care of, but then along came the myriad of different connectors, USB 1.0, 2.0, 3.x gen 1, 3.x gen 2, superspeed, superspeed+superspeed, TPLs and so it goes on, I'd not heard of OTG until today, try this cable with that adaptor but only with these devices otherwise use that cable without an adaptor except on the devices that won't work at all, silly you for trying it. This is easier to understand? 😂
@AudioMasterclass replies to @rhodaborrocks1654: Audiophiles with a passion for vintage equipment are turning to SCSI.
@peters7949: As this type of dongle is likley to be used “out & about”, knowing how well the cables & adapters “lock” in place would be useful to know. Headphone jacks need a little force to pull them out, most USB connectors in my experience come out much to easily, this can be a problem with phone usage, especially where multiple adapters all plugged together,
@AudioMasterclass replies to @peters7949: I didn't mention it in the video but a lot of OTG adapters come with a tether. That kind of tells me it's the wrong way to go.
@tubefreeeasy: You need a new iPhone. They’re all USB-C since the 15.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @tubefreeeasy: "Since the 15". You have a 16?
@tubefreeeasy replies to @tubefreeeasy: @@AudioMasterclass
iPhones are still on 15. No 16 yet.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @tubefreeeasy: @@tubefreeeasy If there were a 'flippant' emoji I should probably have included it in my previous reply. Never mind, the world has had one more opportunity to learn that the current iPhone is the 15 and it has a USB-C connector.
@tye0125 replies to @tubefreeeasy: @@AudioMasterclasslmaooo
@1jfmurray: Using the Khadas Tea at the moment with IEMs as my goto gym rig. Cleanest set up I've used so far.
@verdedoodleduck: Always love the unboxings! Just a hint of sarcastic aplomb. :)
@andymouse: Fascinating as I had no idea what DSD was and I believe it happened in the 80's or around then when I only cared about volume and musical enhancements weren't electronic at least not at the user end, they were much more organic. I can see why DSD is niche it is interesting to me the concept of streaming a load of bits that say whether or not its louder than the last bit, anyhow thanks for that ! I also had a look at the datasheet for the ' CS43131 ' thats also a fascinating bit of kit with it's 156 pages of goodness and graphs, a good read if you like datasheets. I do hope the manufacturers of balanced headphones get in touch soon and not to highlight the point but just to inform me who are makers of these headphones please ?.....cheers
@davespagnol8847: When I first got a phone that didn't have a headphone output, I got a USB-C to headphone adapter which worked perfectly. I also bought a Bluetooth to wired headphone adapter on the 3 for £6 offer at AliExpress. It worked perfectly and the sound was more than adequate. Recently I bought a pair of OneOdio A10 headphones which are both Bluetooth and Wired. So this DS2 is an item I can't see the point of. And I resent the fact that they've stolen my initials.
@davespagnol8847 replies to @davespagnol8847: P.S. 59 quid? Serious?
@fredbloggs1472: For iPhone with lightning, use Apple CCK model #A1440 or model # A1619 . Other non apple connectors may/may not be reliable. Thanks for the vids, sir.
@berndtlindstrom830: In Sweden, we had a consumer information program on television. can't remember the name, but the presenter's name was Sverker. Wicked Ringing in everyone's ears. Good program that checked the manufacturers' "performance" against reality. He also had a dustbin in the studio, where the products of the biggest liars ended up. Just a tip.
@joewlodynski3521: The only thing that the Balanced Connector did for me with my DS1 DAC is the DS1 ran cooler to the touch.
@artysanmobile: I look ONLY for DACs with battery. Can anything make more sense?? This frees the device from literally every compatibility issue and takes advantage of the wonderfully low power consumption of the device. I wouldn’t dream of buying a non-battery portable DAC. Portable=battery=portable.
@thexfile.: DSD is Sony proprietary. 😠
@joselabastida6744: The FiiO LT-LT3, purchased from Amazon at $39.99 USD, works fine with my iPhone 12 Pro and all the dongles and not so dongle DACs I have (FiiO, HiBy, Shanling, Tempotec, Chord Mojo2 and iFi xDSD Gryphon). Cheers!
@marxman00: Balanced heaphones ....balanced vs what exactly? where in the circuit is this mystical impedance fulcrum? And ...Where are all the balanced speakers in the world ........yet!
@peters7949 replies to @marxman00: Just like headphones, loudspeakers can be driven unbalanced (normal amplifiers with ground return) or balanced. Balanced LS amplifiers are usually referred to as working in “Bridge” mode, where one power amp drives the LS +ve terminal & another the -ve terminal, the two amplifiers’ signal being 180deg out of phase, so when one output is +ve voltage the other is -ve. Thus doubling the voltage across the speaker, which results in 4 times more power being fed to the speakers. In professional audio (eg PA systems) this is very common. Many Professional stereo power amplifiers are switchable to be stereo or mono bridged, but the minimum loudspeaker impedance in bridged mode is generally double the stereo mode.
@marxman00 replies to @marxman00: @@peters7949 but define balanced .bridged is no more "balanced" than " single ended". Voltage is always available between any potential difference. Positive negative and ground are just labels and are no more special than each other. Zero volts is a time domain when refering to any alternating current
@peters7949 replies to @marxman00: @@marxman00 hopefully Youtube will allow these links.
Wikipedia on balanced audio
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_audio
Wikipedia on Bridged & parallel power amplification
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridged_and_paralleled_amplifiers
@marxman00 replies to @marxman00: @@peters7949 Thanks for that ..but unless you have a center tapped voice coil it is not "balanced"..and you would not dirive one half of that coil inverse to the other ...unless you wanted silence
Bridged mono is for convenient and efficient impedance matching to voice coils , there is no more actual power developed from the power supply
@peters7949 replies to @marxman00: @@marxman00 no, a center tapped coil is not required.
Loudspeakers react to the voltage difference on each terminal, the point about Bridged Power Amplifiers is that while one amplifier output is going negative, the other is going positive and visa versa, so at any one time the voltage across the speaker terminals is double that which one of the amplifiers can provide.
It works in exactly the same way as balanced audio cables, but to achieve a different outcome. It was always a tricky subject to get across to students when I used to teach it, but if you get your head around how Balanced audio works, it all becomes clear.
@marxman00: firewire to usb adapters have the best stnr and distortion figures by far
@artysanmobile replies to @marxman00: If so, a fact that helps virtually no one.
@marxman00 replies to @marxman00: @@artysanmobile as do firewire to usb adapters
@artysanmobile replies to @marxman00: @@marxman00 Sorry i missed the gag.
@ghostjacker: All my phones (past to present) have a headphone jack so that I don't have to deal with this dongle scam.
@barlow2976 replies to @ghostjacker: It's not a scam, or perhaps you are content with the awful audio that comes out of that jack?
@Nutz0 replies to @ghostjacker: @@barlow2976 i know people complain about 3.5 mm audio but i think it depends on the phone. i have the original iphone se which has a burr-brown chipset and i think it's just fine.
@regorRegor replies to @ghostjacker: @@Nutz0I have a Samsung S10, this dongle doesn't improve on the 3.5 mm jack output for me.
@maidsandmuses: I'm sorry, but "USB Type C cable", "OTG function", "Lightning to Type-C OTG cable", "some devices may not have volume control in exclusive USB audio access mode" 🤣😂
Dongles 🙄😵💫 . Dropping the standard headphone jack + decent built-in DAC from phones and tablets IMO was one of the most boneheaded decisions ever made. All so they could sell you new headphones and/or accessories. And lots of Dongles.
@barlow2976 replies to @maidsandmuses: Did they ever have decent built in dacs? Not in all the Android phones I've had.
@bigbuckoramma replies to @maidsandmuses: @@barlow2976 LG did Custom ESS Quad DAC's with High Gain Function, but not enough normies bought them, so they closed their phone division.
@maxtrue9744: An "Apple Lightning-to-USB Camera Adapter" is required with a Audio Quest DrangonFly DAC
@EricIolo: Hello again! Which do you prefer? This one, or the IFI GO bar? Can you quickly do a A/B test, and declare which is the winner in terms of sounding better? Which bringsa out the nuances more in the music? Better Bloom from one pehaps? Is one more forward than another? Sibilant difference? Sound stage maybe? Timbre? Weight, perhaps in the the testing? Its not all about the numbers! Please start being subjective in your reviews if poosible. BTW, are you going to introduce DM Merch? Mug shots of you on mugs and t-shirts etc?
@AudioMasterclass replies to @EricIolo: You do know that a lot of so-called experts are just making it up? Merch, rest assured, is on the way.
@ac81017 replies to @EricIolo: I want an Audiophile Phil t-shirt please.
@tomasinacovell4293: Your music is far too loud, you have no respect for the audio-chain or us!
@AudioMasterclass replies to @tomasinacovell4293: Just click the dislike button. I'm not going to change anything.
@ac81017 replies to @tomasinacovell4293: There's always that one idiot, and we've found him.
@barlow2976 replies to @tomasinacovell4293: No, we haven't.
@Lif-999: I bought a dongle so small that it was carried off by ants!
@athathsonty2925 replies to @Lif-999: Never knew Ants are interested in HiFi Products.
@Lif-999 replies to @Lif-999: @@athathsonty2925 Pesky creatures will make off with anything if it isn't nailed down!
@Af1st1 replies to @Lif-999: Hopefully they have a good taste in music!Could be Adam Ant fans!
@Lif-999 replies to @Lif-999: @@Af1st1 I see what you did there.
@athathsonty2925 replies to @Lif-999: @@Af1st1 ha ha !
@SteveHuffer: Fiio LT-LT2 cable will do the job.
@obsprisma replies to @SteveHuffer: More expensive dongle DAC's have both cables inside. But yeah, Apple has also escaped their lightning shit into USB-C. There's finaly light(ning) coming into the heads of Apple
@edwinsanchez4889 replies to @SteveHuffer: I tried the LT-LT2 and LT-LT3 to connect my Fosi DS1 to my iPhone 11. A complete bust. No sound whatsoever.
@Andy-xn9zn: Could you review the Homage by JDS labs and ZMF?
@AudioMasterclass replies to @Andy-xn9zn: If they approach me then I probably will.