What's (not) to like about vinyl records?
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Friday November 22, 2024
David Mellor
David Mellor is CEO and Course Director of Audio Masterclass. David has designed courses in audio education and training since 1986 and is the publisher and principal writer of Adventures In Audio.
@williamdavies3295: Here is a chap spouting his stuff about his opinions about hifi!. What could possibly be wrong with allowing people to listen to what they like, through whatever they like. He is acting in a pompous and know it all way.
I was a pro musician for decades, stage screen & studio. i know precisely what he means by pro sound. Any music played in any studio will sound different. But, the desk jockeys know the studio & the gear there & know instinctively how to get a particular sound. It bothers me that all the while, he has a pair of yam grottboxes over each shoulder!.
@GNewcomb-q9v: Only good thing vinyl has is the size of the COVER! The sound is weak & compressed so much, you are missing out on the full sound! A CD is where you will maximize the sound because itās the least compressed format!
Another huge problem is price! Donāt care if itās used or new, they are OVERPRICED! Get in a financial bind & need to sell fast, local record stores will rip you off! They use Discog to price the used records they buy but they will not give you a reasonable price! I found that out when I was left high & dry by my spouse who took all the money! Asked for $1,500 for a collection of vinyl records that were worth $3,000 & only got $630 for them!
The list goes on & on to why vinyl records are overrated, overpriced & overvalued! Went back to CDs & will stick with those! By the way, CDs have been making a comeback & will end up overtaking vinyl as more people get tired of the BS involved with vinyl & the ācollectorsā themselves!
@masterlink_1: Vinyl records, you are for real no one ever called them that... albums, that's what they are called stop calling them that... just because ytubers call then vinyl records, don't sell out ! Reel to reel is what the snoops liked and moreover the bass isn't on records because of the space constraints
@AudioMasterclass replies to @masterlink_1: https://youtu.be/1Wsk8iNmZy4
@patcurrie9888: Try taking your LP in the car for a road trip. My CDs uploaded to iTunes & uploaded to iPod Classic work out great in my car. LP rich warm sound? Sure, compared to flash based phone music.
@davebrown8260: Still listening to vinyl records since I bought my first CD player in the early 80s for the simple reason that these are vinyl records that were never rereleased as a CD.
@homeworldmusic: I don't recall ever thinking my LPs were "warm and rich" and me, I'm a person who grew up with the format. One of my most distinctive memories is of the percussion on a Bob Marley and the Wailers album jumping out of the loudspeakers impeccably crisp and bright and sharp. Instantly made me a fan of 70s Jamaican reggae recordings.
@Robert-r4s4c: When i started to listen to music in 1961 vinyl was the only medium available So there was nothing else to compare it to, except maybe Reel to Reel tape, which was very expensive. I had just started to work and i had to save up some money for a couple of years before i could afford my first descent stereo system.
I don't collect records, i buy records to listen to.
Do you know how the "clicks" and "pops" get onto a record in the first place ? It happens the very first time a new record is played on the turntable. They are caused by the stylus sending shock waves through the vinyl punching miniscule holes out the other end. There is a record preservative liquid that when applied to the groove hardens the vinyl to prevent the shock waves from occurring for up to 200 plays.
To clean and protect my records i use.............
A vacuum record cleaning machine (manual model)
A work turntable to rotate the record, apply the cleaning fluid while thoroughly scrubbing it into the groove.
A mold release agent (Power cleaner)
Record cleaning fluid.
Record preservative to stop clicks and pops on a new record.
@charlespell7762: Hi š I have a question. Is it possible that the process of creating a vinyl record of an album can, in some instances - especially for certain genres and/or certain instrunents - result in a end product that may to some people sound superior to the digital equivalent?
@captainclockwork4007: I still enjoy the ritual of listening to my old records and readily admit that the sound is better; crackles, pops, and all. But, I always look first to purchase music in the CD format; especially to support new artists I've discovered. In that way, I can download the tracks on my Music app and synch my iPod to it, so I can take it on the go; either for a walk or in the car. I don't subscribe to any streaming services, but I use YouTube to discover new music.
@dwrussell5155: Aw come on. You went so easy on vinyl with almost no "not to likes"! Maybe you were worried about a comment storm of epic proportions. But even I, as an unrepentant vinyl enthusiast, can rattle off a number of things not to like. It's just that for me, the things I love, outweigh the things not to like by a substantial margin.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @dwrussell5155: Check out my āvinyl revivalā video. Got me in so much trouble.
@MadeleineTakam_Info_on_Profile: A lot of my husbandās Reggae and Ska albums canāt be found on anything, but vinylā¦.........ā¦ā¦Thank God.
@cirrus1964: Are you here for hobby? Or are you here to make some money with all these thoughts, while it's all about music. I own a perfect audio set, carefully build with over 60 years experience, I recall I enjoyed Blueberry Hill in 1957 coming from a simple pick up build in a bedroom side table. Mono of course, set up in our garden then. All this blablablalabla Audi has become F rocket science nowadays.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @cirrus1964: Iām here for your viewing pleasure, or displeasure if you choose.
@cirrus1964 replies to @cirrus1964: @@AudioMasterclass Really, to me audi o comments sounds last 30 years as bloody politics.
@matthewn1805: I only have one thing to say about vinyl, the riaa curve, nuff said?
@blackhand9581: Eh, its a hobby. I find it neat and own a couple of vinyls, mostly collector's edition. My rule of thumb is that if I have to spend, at the minimum, $150 to get what is considered 'decent' just for a single component, I will not and continue to not care despite having plentiful disposable income to live comfortably without a job. No matter what some audiophile say, $500 for something that just does one thing and only sits in your house *is* expensive and to deny that is delusional.
I do not give a sh!t about how vinyls have soul and all that nonsense. What matters to me is the soul in the music, not the hardware. Dos vinyl amplify that soul? No. Anyone who says otherwise has gaslit themselves through buyer's bias. I perceive it in a more pragmatic view: People like vinyls because they can see a physical source of the music. And the brain likes it when they're able to touch the closest thing we have ot the physical manifestation of sound. And that's 100% fine! That's great! If a vinyl enthusiasts comes at me and talks about the soul in vinyls, i just nod and smile and be polite about it because they're clearly passionate about it. No sense in being a d!ckhead about something other people are passionate about.
What irks me is that alot of vinyl purists forget that musicians and record companies make music for normal people. Not for them. As such, they firmly believe, and I say this without the slightest bit of exageration because I have seen this kind of talk in multiple audio related conventions all across the US, people who listen to digital must not have access to music at all. Even if it was done in jest, the fact that the mere thought of gatekeeping music crossed their minds is enough for me to consider the audiophile community a lost cause. Moreso that there is no real effort to vehemently stamp out this kind of elitist bullsh!t.
@FatherOBlivion: With proper audiophile technique, vinyl records can also be utilized as a weapon. Nothing separates the head from a zombie torso quite like an original pressing of Iron Maiden's No Prayer for the Dying, spinning through the air at 33 1/3 RPM. Wooosh....thud!
Only to be utilized in a true emergency. Assuming, of course, one has a backup copy. Zombie blood creates hellish surface noise.
@darrenwright7186: I often wonder about people's set up's for vinyl when it comes to pop and crackle. After 30 years I have some records that are as clear and clean as the day they were bought. And others where I know exactly where to damage occured. If it pops straight out of the wrapper it goes back. If it gets worse with playing your compliance is set up wrong. People have done the leg work many years, ago such as Shure, and if your damaging records it's cos you're not set up right.
@GrekoKiose: Hi I have been watching your videos for a while but I have some questions . I want to build my first hifi system but I can't choose an amp and I want an integrated one because I want everything in one box . Anyways , I have chosen the Yamaha ns-bp301 speakers but there is one issue . I don't know which amp to go for because I can't find any for around 270ā¬ that support 6Ī© speakers , can you please help me??? Also I just found one but I'm not sure about it , it's a Sony STR-DH190 .
@Jan-m5c2r: I still have my Sony PS-11 direct drive turntable from 1977 (with an Ortofon 2M Blue) and my record collection, build from then and onwards. Surface noise have never been an issue. I have always handled my vinyl well and due to this my visitors always believe I'm playing CDs on my hifi š
@leomojo: They scratch easily, they warp, crackle, donāt sound good unless youāre playing them on a really high quality setup, they break easily, theyāre expensive nowadays, you have to turn them over. Stop me at anytime.
@cb-g8775: i'm prefert CD. sound!
@tree-of-lies537: If this digital crap hadnāt happened vinyl would have just kept on improving but corporates always jump on the new cost saving idea. CD can sound great too but IME it costs a lot more money to get the same level of sound quality for digital Han from analogue.
@fjfandino: The only thing i miss from vinyls is the bigger cover so i can appreciate better the art in it.
Don't miss analog sound. And what i love from streaming is that now i have an almost unlimited catalog
and can hear any record i want.
@frankowalker4662: In the 80's there was a dark hidden away little shop that sold second hand books and records, I would go there at least once a week. He had plenty of SQ Quadraphonic records.
Having an SQ system I started collecting them, everything from classical to rock. He would put them aside for me as he got them, and only charged me Ā£5 for 10 of them. Bargain.
They still sound just as good now as they did then.
@gianni1646: I loved vinyl and played ārecordsā all the time growing up. I believe the āsecretā to why vinyl has warmth and soul is the almost sub sonic tone the needle makes on contact with the spinning disk. Think about it. CDās donāt have that almost undetectable drone in the background! I bought my first CD the same day the record store took all the vinyl off the shelves. It sounded āflatā. I had to get used to that. Records are more fun too. The way you have to handle them by the edges, flip them over to side two and read the liner notes while they play!
Love it,
Gianniā¤
@TomWall-j5p: Lot of flannel here, who really cares about the sleeve. All that matters is how does the actual sound effect you?. If your choices may change as you age, we'll that's life
@richardchapman8855: I don't want to criticize ChatGPT but by my calculation the volume of a CD case is about 1/3 that of a vinyl record, so by volume you could put nearly 3X as many CDs as vinyl records in racks of equal volume. If you are only counting width and height the CD still wins - 1.6 CDs in the area of a vinyl record. Another factor is weight. If you've ever moved a collection of vinyl records you know how back-breakingly awful it is to lift a box of vinyl. If you are an apartment dweller use a streaming service.
Apart from physical measurements, vinyl falls far short of digital in sound quality. I made several albums in the analog age and I remember well the problems of avoiding putting music too close to the label because the angle the needle has to travel is too acute. Also, as you move closer to the centre of the disc the speed the needle is travelling is reduced by a half or more so when you near the label you don't have a 33rpm disc anymore, you have a 15rpm disc. This means that the ripples in the grooves are packed into a smaller space reducing fidelity. Vinyl recordings also need compression to keep the needle from jumping out of the grooves in loud passages. The "warmth" people claim to hear on vinyl is a kind of distortion. Analog recordings were very often recorded "hot" - going into the red on the VU meter - and over-driving the tape. This gives a kind of "glow" to the sound. Digital recordings can't be recorded hot. It's kind of like a overexposed digital photograph with burned out whites. In fact the photographic analogy is apt because film photographers often over-expose or over-develope film to achieve certain effects.
.
If you like the experience of vinyl fine. I only object when people claim that vinyl is objectively better than digital. It isn't; not in dynamic range, noise or fidelity. Neither recording method is the real music anymore than a portrait is the real person. Analog is a portrait by Renoir. Digital is a portrain by Vermeer.
@dxtxzbunchanumbers: I think the most important objection to the vinyl revival: there's costs to both the environment and costs in opportunity. The environmental concerns over the lifecycle of the product (from manufacturing, warehousing, purchase, and ultimate disposal) are enormous, due to the toxicity of vinyl in virtually all phases.
The opportunity costs are more intrinsic to physical media, but if developed land in a major city is $1,000+, can you really justify using that square foot of space for unnecessary storage?
@rwlodarczyk: I what donāt understand these days is the quest for vintage cassettes. This media deteriorates nearly in front of your eyes. I canāt tell you how many cassettes and 8 tracks my parents had that the tape just ripped because the same track was played over and over.
@rwlodarczyk: I love the crackles and pops. It adds something thatās sterile with digital. I love the experience of playing vinyl. Picking, queuing, and mixing into the next track. Now thatās not to say that there isnāt a place for digitalā¦ there is, and certainly convenience is one of them. For me, vinyl is special.
@gingernutpreacher replies to @rwlodarczyk: I like it at the start of a song but want it to be very little while in song what kind of music you listen to?
@zundap100: I love the sound of vinyl records and I think that analog sound is better than digital. I don't mind surface noise. The sound of analog vinyl is more natural and has more depth. Instruments and voices sound as they should. In addition, analog sound relaxes me and I can listen to it for hours without getting tired.
@adotopp1865: I've been playing records about 50 years. At first i had pops, clicks and surface noise. I now have most of my records that play without any of the above. I have a better setup - (Orbe, dv xx2, SME 309.EAR Step up and phono stage) . I keep records and stylus spotlessly clean. (Moth wet RCM, L'Art du son, assorted stylus cleaning brushes blue-tac +solutions. Records never sounded better in my home.
@EricB256: How can Audio-Phil even enjoy analogue when he is all digital himself?
@nickmoranis2865: You only notice how many records you own when you have to move house, or room.
Unless you have to move Dougal McGuireās collection of course.
@mountainmansimulations: When people say they like the sound of vinyl though, don't they really mean they like the sound of audio tape, since most vinyl (up until now) was mastered from audio tape in the first place and even today you can choose to have your digital files mastered to 1/4" tape first, before the cutting lathe.
@andrewtaylor3152: I have a few hundred records which I bought new in the 80s and used (usually $1 a pop) in the 90s and I love them. Sound quality varies anywhere from terrific to awful. I have an early pressing of Doors Morrison Hotel which sounds absolutely astonishing, and a mono Sgt. Pepper which, despite the mediocre condition, reveals a musical intensity that the stereo mix on CD never approaches. However, in my experience the "coldness" of digital audio was a problem only in the 80s, due to the early generations of A/D converters. Nowadays, I find lush, detailed, very warm sound while streaming Spotify. As for snap and crackle, there are certain LPs (such as early Cat Stevens) which I really do prefer with the analog artifacts, for the campfire feel. For the most part, though, the modern remasters of 70s rock (especially Steve Wilson's work on Jethro Tull) blows the Vinyl and early CDs of the same out of the water. Nowadays, it's the other parts of the system (amp, speakers, etc.) that determine the warmth and detail of a recording. I don't ultimately care about format -- the music is what matters. I like records, but I would never spend $40+ on any of these modern audiophile pressings (most of which originate from digital masters and/or someone's Macbook Pro in the first place).
@TucsonBillD: I have a vinyl copy of a performance of the Greig concerto in A minor and the Rachmaninoff Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini performed by Phillips aentremont with the Philadelphia orchestra niter the baryon of Eugene Ormandy. I have dated this particular pressing to approximately between 1967 and 1970 (yes, dating by the label is a thingā¦) In other words, the record is approximately 65 years oldā¦ and it is absolutely dead silent (other than the music, of course). Now, record labels are more likely to do a better job with classical titles than, say an Elvis record. After all, most adults are more likely to have high end systems than the usual teenager with a Dansette.
@michaelmitchell8218: I love vinyl when itās all we had and tape. But am sorry CD beats it in every way and when it came out I never look back. If you buy a good CD player then you will have the best sound. I do electronics and I know the all this and how it works. Just like people who spend Ā£15,000 on a cd player which is no better than a Ā£1000 machine. You do have to spend good money on quality but not stupid money.
@hotsummernight289: About the crackles, sometimes I buy a vinyl 2 / 3 times, support the artist.
@hotsummernight289: Yes, it is the aroma, and the turning of the disc.
@LocoScot7356: I had been collecting LP records for over 50 years . I stop collecting when i realized that some of my cherished and expensive classical and opera records which have been carefully handled , cleaned and stored over the years have developed serious clicks , pops and crackles . Despite the fact they have been played using good quality Hi FI cartridges and turntables . For example my once loved and cherished box set of Mahler Complete 10 symphonies on DGG with Rafael Kubelik conducting the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra pressings are now sounding like a frying chip pan in the background with assorted clicks and pops . The quiet opening of the Mahler 1st is now absolute torture to listen to these days . As Kenneth Williams shouted out near the end of the British comedy film Carry On Screaming ...... " FRYING TONIGHT " . Do not even get me going about the opening of Wagner's Das Rheingold on certain LP pressings . I have now bought the CD versions for the silent backgrounds and it is sheer bliss .
@spadogs: Thanks for this. Where did you find your wallpaper?
@johnstone7697: Sure....dragging a rock through a piece of plastic sounds superior to a format proven over and over to be totally transparent to the original source. Next thing you're gonna tell me is that Americans will vote Donald Trump back into office. Oh, wait.......
@narrowfield6846: I treated my 7 inches without suffient care, as they were played very often on parties und on cheaper, even portable turntables. But I tried to keep my LPs in the best possible conditon. Even today, when I have guests at home who grew up in the CD era, they are suprised that they hardly hear any crackles or other disturbing noises. Ok, they are several exeptions like LPs with a lot of danceable tunes. For example the Rolling Stones sampler Through The Past Darkley, Big Hits Vol. 2, was so worn out, that I needed to buy a replacement copy after some years. Regarding Storage: when we moved houses in 2009, we decided to take the LPs (around 2,000 pieces) into our living room, but not the CDs (around 3,000). The reason? The CDs would have looked much more disturbing due to the number of shelves you need for the lower height of the CDs. That was the time when we decided to buy a streamer in combination with a NAS. Of course I kept all of the CDs, but hardly touch them anymore. Either I play vinyls or stream own stuff from the NAS or via Qobuz or Tidal alternatively.
@otakarschon: I love crackles on old vinyl I have from childhood, those are rare old friend. On new albums I am annoyed when that happens but I still love the experience, I only run vinyl when I really want to listen, not having music on background or as company when teaveling
@Seiskid: I've grown an increasing fondness for black spinney things. People rave about how good they sound, but that's a claim that never made sense to me. It's a flawed medium, but one that can sound pretty nice. As well as snap, crackle, pop, its other limitations include distortion, sibilance, stylus fluff, w&f, surface noise, rumble. Oh and getting up out of your chair every 20 minutes. Even so it's kinda cute how well it actually works as a medium.
@memorysticky7581: Vinyl is sourced from digital sources.
@meredithharvan5632: I don't know if it maintains its "first play" quality, but I'm pretty careful about handling by the edges and label only, cleaning every play and cleaning the stylus at least once or more times per week and tracking at no more than about 2g tracking but my records stay in pretty good shape and if they develop some static pops and crackles I hit it with Zerostat and that takes care of it. I still have my first record - Dark Side of the Moon bought in '74? it still plays fine.... collecting just to collect doesn't appeal to me but do like to collect records to listen to them because I do like the way vinyl sounds but I don't use the zillion dollar tables- I use my old pioneer PL530 and a denon DP 37F
@clicks59: Sadly, I think most modern vinyl is pressed from digital sources and not from an actual analog tape. Unless a new artist records to tape, master's the tape then transfers it to vinyl, it's probably all digital except for the vinyl itself. On the flip side, I was so excited to find that "Strange Universe" by Mahogany Rush was released on CD back in the day. I was disappointed to find out the CD was pressed from a scratchy vinyl record. It sounded the same as my worn out album.
@MichaelSaamone: I find the surface noise relaxing .
@gianni1646 replies to @MichaelSaamone: Thatās what Iām talking about!ā¤
@jamesmcdonald7287: I'm no audiophile and i couldn't even begin to decontruct the reason why,, but my records sound much, much better than streaming music. Is that simply the aource? I.dont really care. āļø
@60sPsycheFanatic: Just before decimalization LPs cost 32/6. I expected to learn something I didn't know ie which came first chicken or egg record or player. Few lps have all good tracks with a cd you can skip with ease. For your info 78s had no covers.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @60sPsycheFanatic: My small but lively collection of 78s thanks you for reminding them of what they're missing.
@rpvermeulen: CD's definitely have a distinct fragrance. Just set fire to them.
@peanutbutterjellyjam2179: Yes, yes; the good old distortion of vinyl. I miss it from the good old days, and I don't intend to find it again.
@redpill4431: Dont have to justify my purchases to anyone, I am not 12.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @redpill4431: You're not married then?
@fredmccarroll3476: I collect and love both vinyl and CDs! If you clean a vinyl well there should not be the crackle and pop sound. Most of my vinyl do not have the crackle and pop sound. I presently have around 1200 vinyl records and around 1600 CDs. I also collect movies. I have around 1500 movies on DVD and Blu-ray. And I have 150 Rock concerts and documentaries on DVD and Blu-ray.
@adotopp1865 replies to @fredmccarroll3476: Yes. You never heard the crackles or pops when they played records on the radio in the 70's š
@mikecampbell5856: Snap crackle pop belongs in my cereal bowl. LOL My wife surprised me with a CD player for my birthday in 1985 and I never bought a record again. I think a good turntable is a work of art though.
@nickjcresswell: I have a copy of Bowie's Ziggy Stardust that I bought in the 1990s in a record shop in Nottingham. It was a couple-of-quid with a slightly tatty sleeve. Sounded like a chip shop (crackly frying sound) when I first put in on. I've played it and played it down the years and this seems to have cleaned it. It now sounds like a library (i.e, no noise!) and is one of my favourite records to pull out. A soft-dry microfibre cloth is a great investment.
@LeeBergerMediaProd: I grew up with vinyl, good quality turntables and amplification thanks in part to my fatherās hand me downs. Later I upgraded. I was all into the ritual of cleaning and destaticing my records. But when CDās came along I was glad to drop that in favor of just loading the CD and pressing play. I still have a nice turntable but Iām lazy and usually default to streaming.
@ronaldmcdonald2456: Thousands of albums...in the palm of my hand! Hi-Res digital downloads.
So, when I contemplate the space issue I ask myself (REPEATEDLY), ''How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?''
Feel free to do the math. Or, should I say MATHS? The youngsters have gotten me confused.š
@Dobiwankenobiwan: I always found it stressful trying to drop the needle on the leading edge of the record and not off the platter. I might have missed the edge of one or two records when much younger. Now with older eyes looking for that first groove would be even harder. Also, I always hated having to get up at the end of the record (when Iām relaxed) to pick up the arm at the end. Thump, thumpā¦Could you talk about the differences in equalization between tape (IEC1, IEC2 & NAB), records, CDs & āhigh resolutionā digital flacs with large dynamic range? My ReVox PR99 has no dolby and no hiss. Itās a fantastic machine. I hope R2R makes a comeback. Tape > Vinyl, but of course both are only as good as the recordings.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @Dobiwankenobiwan: I suspect a video on tape EQ would receive too few views to count. But if I remember my lessons from more than 40 years ago, both EQs are basically to compensate for the 6 dB/octave response of the replay head which rises with higher frequency. But to add a gloss on that IEC adds pre-emphasis at high frequencies on record and compensating de-emphasis on replay allowing a better HF performance and less noise at HF. So does NAB but at a different frequency. NAB also does this for low frequencies which will reduce any hum picked up by the head. IEC1 is IEC (also CCIR). IEC2 is a ratification of NAB. That's the quick version of what I remember. Don't quote me. P.S. Watch out for my next video!
@konstantinosbalaskonis4553: I grew up with cd's and had never touched a vinyl record. When spotify arrived, I jumped ship the first moment I could. I bought my first record after a Murder By Death concert, when the band was selling their merch. Singer signed it too, and I was there with my girlfriend (now wife). I didn't have a turntable, and also didn't have money back then for one either. Friends of mine gifted me a second vinyl album from the band for xmas, at which point I thought "screw it, I'll buy a turntable". Using the internet is both great for all the info, but also the worst, because you somehow find out, that no matter what one thinks as an acceptable budget for a hifi system, there will always be some gatekeeping asshole of audiophilia to claim that the system sucks, which is why the records don't sound good.
I actually enjoy listening to vinyl only because I have a ritual: glass of whiskey, a book and headphones after the kids and wife are asleep. I like the direct effect of seeing my music being transferred to my ears (the record spinning). I get to detox a bit from digital life.
Any time I try doing the same thing streaming on my phone, I find myself googling something.
As to the sound quality. With my project carbon evo, cambrdige audio alva and meze headphones, there are records that sound good, most sound just ok, and some suck ass. Ironically, the first record I ever bought sounds awful.
My 35 year young ears can't really tell a difference between 256 kbps aac vs lossless. I stressed for a while about this, until I realised that I was actually happier 10 years ago, when listening to a song on youtube over my laptop speakers, than I was, when I was trying to find a difference in the various formats.
So I've resolved to using youtube music (youtube premium subscriber) for everyday listening, and to vinyl for inferior sound quality but digital detoxing.
I am not interested in going back to cd though. The ritual aspect compared to vinyl is just not there.
@barfuss2981: Record players are musical instruments, if you know how to play them they can sound good. It is the same as with a guitar or something.
@rich.e replies to @barfuss2981: Funnily enough, I've been thinking just that; playing a record generates sound from a physical object into the sonic experience.
Might be why vinyl playback can sometimes feel more alive and involved than digital? Not knocking digital; I enjoy that too but there are many reasons why I still get a kick out of finding, buying and playing records.
@bruffyb3796: To truly love vinyl, you definitely need to accept its flaws.
@docjeffreyb: Streaming...choices would cripple my enjoyment. CD's...can't be stored neatly in bankers' boxes in the basement. Those jewel cases will get loose and slide into anarchy, so even if I wanted to, I wouldn't be able to find The Plimsouls. Cassettes...Yeah. Right. Running out of options. Oh, wait. My vinyl collection takes up less space than CD's (thanks for that), and it breaks up early reflections when stored in those little IKEA cubes. I can play with interactive die cut covers (Zep 3, Some Girls) and marvel at soft touch (DM Violator) and fabric (Bee Gees Odessa) covers. And modern TT, carts and pre's minimize hum, buzz, pops and clicks. Big collection means nothing gets worn out. I've solved it. Vinyl = audio bliss. Uh oh. Wait. Maybe 15 IPS reel to reel = audio bliss? Nope. No die cut gimmicky For Everyman covers. Hold on...Dolby Atmos mixes on Blu Ray. Nope. The die cut thing again. Scheise. Festhalten. Gotta get up and flip that sumbitch.
@keanueraine: Where I live up north here in northern Canada, anime music on vinyl can be challenging to be found in the wild. Sure I can hit up amazon or eBay but there is legitimately no fun in that. So I hunt. I recently found a pristine sealed Cowboy Bebop and I was ecstatic on finding it in the wild. Sure I have the music on my phone as .flac and can listen to it in the car via Bluetooth or from my pc hooked up to my hi-fi system, but finding it, taking it home, opening it up, placing it on the turn table and putting the needle down and listening to Tank was damn near like listening to it for the first time. I was thrilled. Don't diss the hunt, it's definitely a thing.
@DonnyKirkMusic: TBH I only listen to vinyl when I am going on Internet Archive and looking for whatever vinyls people upload. Fun stuff, if you like to sample for your own tracks. The main thing I do when sampling is use it for how naturally-saturated it is, it allows you to go even more hard on editing how it sounds because the highs are very minimal, there are pops/sizzle that can add to the sound if you eq it right, etc., you basically restore the quality loss, partially, with EQ and effects, and add your own spin to it.
@humanitech: As someone who got into hifi back in the early eighties... I bought a pink triangle turntable with a reasonable tonearm, cartridge, amp and speaker setup...and although I really loved the sound (...excluding the ocasional clicks, pops and flutter of course) but really disliked the whole faff and process of listening to whole album sides - rather than just the few good tracks I actually wanted to listen too! Equally I also disliked filling my room with whole walls of album racks....so I was really happy when digital files, ripping and streaming came about! Sure digit seems to have taken some sonic ambience away.... but it's getting pretty close these days!
But still recording and mixing quality is still highly questionable in all formatsš
@Pksparty2112: I remember switching from Vinyl to CDs back in the 80.
Not going to go through that again.
@markcarrington8565: Records are less expensive than lossless streaming. You only have access to the stream for one month in exchange for your monthly subscription fee. Then your collection of music expires. If you want to listen next month, you pay again and you have to hope it is still in the streamerās library.
I bought my records for varying amounts. I paid for three records yesterday at Ā£1, Ā£7 and Ā£15. All original pressings in excellent condition.
Nobody can decide theyāre no longer in my collection. If I decide I no longer wish to listen to music, I can exchange my entire collection for money. And as I bought carefully and I treat them well, I have every expectation of recovering all of my original investment.
@EARLandPEARL-c3i: Vinyl is a nostalgia play with me...I play a side a day....i have 85 records so do the math...I may go as high as 178
@joelcarson4602: The only thing I miss about vinyl records are the album cover art and the liner notes that you don't need a microfiche reader to see.
@rEdf196: As a 1970's and 80's kid, when vinyl was the norm like many, storage and loose records were always an issue. I tried to keep my own records protected and pristine in their covers as best as I could unless I forgot to remove my beloved Led Zeppelin disc off the turntable and my mother would play a another record and put my own sleeveless record loose among the album collection rubbing against other loose dusty records and discovering it weeks later too late. a very common problem with most record collections back in the day.
@jefflabute2946: Iām glad we are still using oil to produce something! What amazes me is the willingness to spend more than a million bux on playback, when the mastering equipment could have been 1/4 of that.
@user-yk4gd1fl4z replies to @jefflabute2946: The expertise in mastering vinyl back then was worth 10 times that amount.
@simonupstone4924: My biggest ānot to likeā about vinyl would be the cost of a decent record player, and how my children might damage it. I have a decent stereo for streaming and CD/SACD playback. Neither I nor my wife would see it as wise to open up a third front in the hi-fi money pit.
@josegallegosdds: Potato, Pohtahto. Tomato, Tomahtoh. Letās call the whole thing offš.
@BobRoger-i8z: Surface noise. I'm a long time buyer of vinyl, but no more, I'm fed up of all the surface noise, for me a LP is at it's best for the first two plays, then it gets worse & worse, sounds crazy I know, maybe my gear is too sensitive.. CD's for me now, SACD's if I can get them.
@zroter: If you only care about the music and not the physical object, lossless FLAC digital downloads sound perfect, take no shelf space, are cheaper than physical media and won't disappear like on streaming services. For albums you won't listen more than a few times, streaming services are still the most cost effective.
@rabit818: I love the LP jacket and inner sleeve/lyrics. Iāve cleaned my ECM records with tire inflator in my garage, little impact w pops and clicks. So I want my music served cold via CD
@Qq-x9447: Forget the vinyl do ya' doncha' ...
I'm more interested in the Yamaha NS10's (?) speakers - (...look out, they're behind you!...)
What are they like to live with as home audio standmounts?
@AudioMasterclass replies to @Qq-x9447: NS10M Studio. Frequency response not so flat. No bass. Excellent clarity. Compromises.
@Qq-x9447 replies to @Qq-x9447: @AudioMasterclassĀ
Many thanks for your quick response - and indeed for responding to me at all.
I'm guessing (..possibly wildly) shortcomings in the bass could be augmentented with a REL sub to create a satisfying home hifi speaker system ...?
@AudioMasterclass replies to @Qq-x9447: @Qq-x9447 If I were using them for domestic hi-fi then yes I would have a sub. Closed box of course.
@Qq-x9447 replies to @Qq-x9447: @AudioMasterclassĀ
Fab - and thanks again.
I have my faithful ol' REL Q200E sub (closed box) already, so will keep an eye to what ebay etc, has to offer re the NS10 studio speakers. š
@michaelfurbank3504: Presumably your storage measurements overlook the fact that you can store CDs at double depth and many (like me) store them without jewel cases. That way you can store significantly more CDs than vinyl in the same space.
@richgrao: I also grew up pre CD, and had a decent vinyl collection when they came out. As I gradually replaced my favorite albums with CDs, the vinyl went into boxes. In addition to no more noise, you could SHUFFLE CDs. I am not a fan of snap, crackle, pops and SKIPS. I really only cared about the music. So now we are in a streaming 1world and I donāt play CDs much either.
BUT: I still have a lot of vinyl and all of my CDs. I ditched the plastic cases and put the CDs into sleeves, so storage is waaay better than vinyl. Who cares about 4 x 4 artwork anyway? And I am considering buying a turntable to revisit my vinyl. Not because I think the sound is better; more because of the nostalgia.
So if I had to pick one source, it would be streaming, just because of the sheer convenience.
@RCJP1008: Iāve done straight up comps with records vs stream vs CD. Conclusion- it all works okay. Or it doesnāt. If the QC around each process stinks, the outcome stinks too. Vinyl, when weāll recorded, mastered etc, like CDs and streaming, can be very revealing, dynamic and satisfying listen. Cracks, pops and crackles- get something weāll done, not a big deal. Finally, the aroma is mostly from the sleeve. Go smell an Amazon box and compareš. The PVC used to make a record has its own interesting aroma (chemical- think garden hose) but mostly you smell the stuff they used to process the cardboard sleeve. My wife tells me Iāve got a nose like a blood hound- a blessing and a curse. Mildew/mold- well- I hope we know the difference in aroma! Nice segment again.
@RCJP1008 replies to @RCJP1008: Further clarification on my garden hose comparison, the āaromaā is mostly from the softeners called plasticizers used to make a more flexible PVC end product- records with a little and a hose with a lot.
@peterbriggs2771: I recall taking an album back 14 times as the pressing had a fault, an annoying jump, or repetitive playing of the same point. I couldn't ignore these traits and the a novice in collecting albums I sold my albums and Rega 3 turntable. CD players have come along way since the 80s. Digital and analog presentation of music is not night and day. I have collected CDs since the 80s, where CDs were designated AAD, ADD and DDD and how to look after them. As with albums I hold and place the CD like an album. To preserve the surface from scratchs. I also purchase inner sleeves when they are sold in a cardboard sleeve. My players have advanced through the decades, from Meridian, Linn, Naim and now the Rega Isis valve player. Oh I also pour over the foot notes and small versions, whilst listening and the music captures the moment and also the period when I first listened to music, on a single Music Fidelity turntabe amp box, purchaded from Rumbalows.....showing my age. Good balanced presentation. You could do a series of them covering all formatsšššµš¶
@tristandesade8635: Just a thought on space needed for LPs vs for CDs. LPs with outer nylon shell (which does not protect perfectly against moisture) take more space. Old LP sleeves get thicker because of the moisture. CDs, on the other side, are increasingly packaged as digipacks, or even simple thin cardboard sleeves. Furthermore, LPs should not be stacked on top of each other, while CDs could. In that way one could lower the number of shelves in a CD storage. Also, many albums that are double LP albums, fit on a single CD. Hence, in theory, 1000 CDs might take less space than 1000 CDs.
@bikeman7982 replies to @tristandesade8635: CDs with booklets in plastic sleeves take up 20% of space as vinyl. Even less when you consider many double LP albums fit on a single CD.
@RaymondReeves-db8dr: Morning Dave. Yes it is a long one but relevant comments to another curious post from you. Some will say that social media is not the best place to obtain any really meaningful and accurate info,. I was hoping that you would have unequivocally explained (subjectively as well as objectively) why to some people, vinyl still sounds better than a CD. A lot of audiophiles are still convinced of this aren't they? Never mind explaining that all of the imperfections of vinyl are to blame, because maybe you have explained it but didn't realise it. You point out that in the past, record companies manufactured vinyl to sound good on cheap reproductive equipment. You don't mention if those same recordings sound equally as good when played on the discerning audiophiles mega bucks system. This might explain why some old recordings sound very distorted on my above average HIFI. This is usually noticeable with 45's. I can only think that in the past, some analogue recordings were mastered way beyond the acceptable peak level. (over compressed) Am I wrong in thinking that in this day and age, there are two final masters? There is one for vinyl and another one for CD's, is there another for streaming? My point is that somewhere in this process the sound character is in my mind needlessly altered. They, (the mastering engineers) don't seem to know how to do the mix for the final product anymore. You know that loudness wars are to blame, because you have said so. I make my own copies of my vinyl records and I can't complain about the quality of the end result. Another of your points, is that you say that vinyl eventually wears out, this is undeniable. but, what you don't mention is that a diamond stylus also wears out after a period of time. Fact, vinyl will wear out the diamond styli. Another fact, a damaged and worn stylus will damage and wear a vinyl record. Have you seen the videos made by Kevin on his YouTube channel VWestlife. He did a remarkable wear comparison test using 3 different cartridges, on identically brand new vinyl records. This is what I mean about accurate info on social media, was he right or wrong, or is it all nonsense?. Another point that you make. in their current form CD's do take up a lot of space, but, they could be packaged in a thinner card sleeve that is maybe half as thick as they currently are. Instantly you will reduce the weight and double the storage space. To cut costs, CD's could be sold in just card sleeves with just the basic info. This has been tried before but for some reason they keep returning to that ridiculous jewel case. The record industry could offer the consumer a download of a digital file version of the sleeve in HD form. I could even print one off for keeps. How many consumers actually want a sleeve. I have seen many philistine collections of 45's without any sleeves. 60 years ago my sisters records only had half of their sleeves. In reality the quality of music has to be more important than the sleeve, doesn't it.?
@MrSidMuff: The vast majority of vinyl 'enthusiasts' play their 'superior sounding' records on completely inferior record players...and delude themselves with nostalgia and believing all those who told them it was 'superior'. I reckon a cheap cd player or streamer (Ā£150-Ā£200) will outperform an equivalent record player.
@DonnyKirkMusic replies to @MrSidMuff: The only time its superior is when the vinyl has a better master than what was on CD (in terms of dynamic range). This is how it is for certain Nujabes releases and also Gorillaz' first album, the vinyl's sound-wave isn't nearly as squashed. There are times when you can avoid the loudness war'd mastering by buying the vinyl version, which was mastered quieter.
@AncientEgyptArchitecture: (sigh...) I bought my first hi-end audio equipment before CD's were even a glimmer in a digital techies eyes. I used to spend hours in actual record stores, which I do so miss, and the opening/playing of a coveted disc for the very first time was a magical experience. I used to own 3 different turntable/pickup combinations, the better to try and extract the maximum listening pleasure from my collection.
My long love affair with vinyl has finally died away after 50 years of progressively lower quality, increasingly more expensive and hard to find selections. Recently I have purchased some 'new pressings' of older recordings, paid unreasonable sums for them and found to my horror and disgust that a newly minted vinyl disc fresh out of the wrapper can harbor clicks/pops/and the crackle of a major dust storm.
No more! Now I collect CD's. So economical! So easy to care for! And so many choices. The sound? It's fine! And..no hiss, crackle, wow, pops or hum...just blissful content, with absolute silence between tracks.
My last remaining turntable now gathers dust, and I have sold all but a treasured few of my records on Ebay.
I should add that in addition to my Denon C680 for 'audiophile' listening, I have one of those old Sony carousel players that one can load 200 compact discs into...just the ticket for many hours of uninterrupted background music when I am busy in my workshop.
@mrglasses8953 replies to @AncientEgyptArchitecture: Just use a good external DAC with the carousel, and it'll sound as good as any "high end" CD player.
@mortenjohansen4120: Vinyl has limited dynamic range (they compressed the sound in order to fit snall sound system), they cut low frequency bass, (the RIIA stage problem amplifying rumble), pops and scratch. You also hear the Ā«shhĀ» sound in treble areas when the record is worn. (I have worked with sound mixing and production in the 80ās)
@BlankBrain: I spent all my money on my system too, so I didn't have much for records. My system was very good, so I bought half-speed mastered, and direct to disk. Those were about $25 to $27 in th]e early '80s ($82 to $87 today). I usually played them once to learn the levels, then recorded them on FeCr tape with dbx. I also recorded some to Beta HiFi. It was good enough for normal listening, but I had the option of listening directly. Now I buy CDs at Goodwill for $1.99 ($1.89 on Wednesdays) and rip them. I have all the tactile feedback that I used to get from vinyl. If there are scratches, I polish them on an old bench grinder that I converted with felt wheels. I wash them with Dawn detergent before ripping them. While I'm ripping, I search for and download cover art. I have over 1,100 FLAC albums on my NAS and phone, with ~150 in the queue. My phone has a 3.5mm jack and great DACs. A nice thing about having them on my phone is that with my mind going, I can see if I've already bought an album before buying it. What I've learned is that it's not about the equipment (mostly); it's about the music.
@bikeman7982: I store my CDs with the booklets in clear poly sleeves. About 165 CDs fit in a small 5x5x13 in^3 CD storage box. So, you can store a 1,000 CDs in a 10x15x13 in^3 space. A lot more compact than vinyl. I do find the CD ritual just as satisfying because I use a top loading player that can play with the lid off.
@makatac2629 replies to @bikeman7982: Hi, can you provide a link to the CD boxes you use? I have seen a few that I didn't like, so just wondering where you got yours. Thanks
@straymusictracksfromdavoro6510: I may be talking out my hat or another orifice here, but firstly, isnāt listening to music about ālistening to musicā, isnāt that enough of a sensory experience in itself, without anything else? Secondly, for some reason most people seem to think of streaming or playing CDs as the only logical digital alternatives to playing vinyl records, theyāre not. You can digitize all your LPs and cassettes, rip your CDs and store those files as well as your digital downloads in say, Flac format, on an external hard disk attached to a laptop that can be connected to a DAC which can then be connected to your amplifier to play your music through your hi āfi system. You can utilise a digital jukebox such as JRiver or even MediaMonkey to add relevant metadata to your files, such as Track Name, Album Name, Artist, Year, Source, Album Art and an absolute truck load of other relevant data, (if you feel so inclined), to create digital albums. Itās then a very simple task, (even I have achieved it), to connect your laptop to your TV as well via an HDMI cable to display the album cover and metadata on your TV while the track is playing in your digital jukebox on your laptop and guess what? ā depending on the size of your TV the album cover and associated metadata can be really big and you can stare at it intently for as long as you play a track or an album. This also gives you the convenience of being able to play any track or album or artist that exists in your digital collection without searching endlessly through your CDs, LPs or cassettes or trying to access poorly indexed digital downloads and then you can do the sweetest thing of all, shuffle your entire collection to provide surprises and rediscover forgotten hidden gems. It may be just me, but this is truly paradise and really, digital files of reasonable resolution sound pretty good played through a reasonable DAC, on a reasonable system, maybe not audiophile, but good enough for my 71 year old ears.
@audiononsense1611: 3:2x in... In my years in this hobby I find in most cases were folks take considerable care of their vinyl, wear comes from a badly setup turntable. To provide a bit of background I do this for side $$$ and most of what I seen, even from folks who have taken it to a dealer, is the setup will not be within spec and usually due to compliance (VTA in most cases)... fireplaces are supposed to crackle not LP's...
@pierreduchesne0001: Another great video. You are truly the authority on the subject of physical media. And what makes this video even more interesting is that it is being produced at a time when vinyl growth is in decline. The vinyl renaissance is over, it couldn't be otherwise, like it or not. Overpriced vinyl, often with unacceptable defects, production and availability issues (at least at low prices). There was no rational argument for vinyl over CD or streaming. I will always say that CDs are better because you own something with liner notes, even if regarding the artwork the challenge is greater compared to the LP format (which I also like). When CDs are not available, I am one of those who buy vinyl and the equivalent on iTunes to own the files. The vinyl renaissance has been something crazy, an irrational reaction to streaming. But now that the young are broke, and that buying the Degritter didn't help much in removing all the surface noise (in fact, it helped the youth to be in more financial trouble), you're better off subscribing to Spotify, or buying a few CDs. My request for a future topic: ultrasonic cleaning of vinyl records. Your cynical views on the subject would be exquisite. If you can't tackle this topic, that's fine, your other cynical videos are delightful too.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @pierreduchesne0001: If I were the boss of a streaming service, and there was music on vinyl that couldn't be sourced any other way, then yes I'd definitely be into cleaning. By what method, I don't know. But if ultrasonic cleaning works for medical applications, then giving it a try for vinyl seems well worth a try.
@pierreduchesne0001 replies to @pierreduchesne0001: @@AudioMasterclass I remember, somebody did this comment about ultrasonic cleaning: "(...) i work in the cleaning and sterilization of medical instruments and we use ultrasonic cleaners as well and we can't put medical instruments in the ultrasonic cleaner which are made out of plastic materials this is because the cavitation effect of the ultra sonic cleaner will be far less effective this is because the plastic materials will absorb the cavitation effect and the cavitation bubbles u are trying to create will not explode and clean the surface u are trying to clean". The Degritter costs over 3000 $US dollars. Some sellers are happy, customers, well, I hope their hopes are realistic.
@Jan-m5c2r replies to @pierreduchesne0001: It was reported that the vinyl sales were down 33% in 2024 - but discogs found an error in the calculations and has established that sales in 2024 is actually up by 6,2%. Google it š
@ricktotty2283: You could not give me a turntable. I have some direct to disk vinyls I kept because they are not replaceable. I wish there was someone that would scan them so they could be used on my steaming network.
@VintageGearMan: I also have a "very weird innate ability" to order used records on line in fantastic condition. 97% of the time I get smoking great copies. Call it a lottery if you will.
@VintageGearMan: Hands down records for me. There is such a natural audio listening experience I will never get with digital. I get a continuous audio sign wave verses missing information on and off with digital. That is my story and sticking to it. To each his own. No bashing intended.
@VintageGearMan replies to @VintageGearMan: @@thorniestorange Will check out. Cool. Thanks. I am not closed minded. If I were,, I would not still be able to play out as a drummer at this point in my life. However after listening to records for over 40 years I must say to me personally there is nothing like it. Thanks on the link.
@VintageGearMan: Try this out and thank me later. Smoking great mono LP. "JUMPIN WITH JONAH" THE JONAH JONES QUARTET LP ALBUM 1958 CAPITOL T-1039 . There is a lot to be said for the purity in "mono" recordings. Probably barely used any mics and what were used were in an outstanding studio room!!! All musicians placed in the room correctly. I just listened to the original 1958 LP. Insanely awesome!!! I am running a 1969 AR XA with a Empire 2000E III cartridge and original stylus. Heaven!
@mathumphreys: Personally I'm not a super fan of vinyl, but I don't mind it and I've got nothing against it. I accept the attraction of the sound, the tactile sense and the fun of collecting and having an original version of an album the way it was released all those years ago. But I draw the line at people arguing the format is better than another.
@TrudyTrew replies to @mathumphreys: Analogue is better than digital, all the same.
@jazzboy: What medium used is moot as they are all amazing now. What matters is mastering. Miles Kind of Blue stellar on all formats...Led Zeppelin horrible on high res streaming, but oddly, the remastered vinyl is OK.