Do YOU need a fake sound bar? Some people do!
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Monday April 15, 2024
David Mellor
David Mellor is CEO and Course Director of Audio Masterclass. David has designed courses in audio education and training since 1986 and is the publisher and principal writer of Adventures In Audio.
@Popecody55: J dont have a soundbar. But a Samsung serif... Good good sound. ❤ Love the sound of this tv
@voskresenie-: re:mounting main monitors in soffits (7:47), I've seen this before and would like it, but doesn't this result in poor sound due to insufficient space around the speakers? I'd always heard you should have speakers positioned 6-18 inches from walls and any other obstructions. But I don't entirely understand why that is so I'm not sure whether that's really necessary. Maybe it's airflow, which isn't an issue if the speaker is inside the wall since the wall presumably is mostly empty? Or does it still cause issues, but not significant enough to outweigh benefits for many people? Would love to hear more about how that works.
@voskresenie- replies to @voskresenie-: Also, when you're doing that, aren't you locking yourself into a very particular size of speaker? I suppose expanding the slot for a bigger speaker wouldn't be too difficult / expensive, but if you wanted to reduce the size vertically and/or horizontally, wouldn't that be exorbitantly expensive?
@vap0rtranz: Do I? No. Does my spouse want a soundbar? Yes. "Get rid of these", and hear the sound of my tall, standing loudspeakers crying 😭
@larsvargstrand6749 replies to @vap0rtranz: So, when is she moving out?
@Vindexi: The highlights on your face are on the opposite site of the windows in your background.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @Vindexi: You are very observant. And if this were a real room I'd still have my key light on my best side.
@Suaveone1: I sold all my Hi End Audio of 35 years and bought a yamaha sound bar not looking back
@thepuma2012: Here in the Netherlands we have chain store with very big stores in cities which they call: Media Market. And they sell something of everything (almost) from cell phones and TVs, to DVDs and laptops, and besides kitchen equipment, yes audio. I actually went for speaker cable. But yes, indeed soundbars were presented as the must have and somewhere on a shelf were a few bookshelve speakers. No floorstanders at all! Not a brand I know between them. Furthermore I suppose there was an AV from probably Denon and a philips radio. There was some speaker cable - from 0.75 mm2 up to 1.5. there were no plugs or spades or anything else. For audio a very sad shop.
@joshmcgootermier2301: Oh my, we have wires going down our walls due to this madness. I refuse to use a soundbar and just deal with tacky wiring.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @joshmcgootermier2301: I've chased a few audio cables into plaster in my time. It isn't hard but one needs patience and an iron will to get a perfect finish.
@SubTroppo: To paraphrase that Beatles song title: "You've got to hide your non-wearable technology away".
@carlsitler9071: Yes, bigger is better.
@carlsitler9071: Sound bar? Ha ha ha ha ha ah. Klipsch powered speakers that controls active sub (TV and gaming, not music).
@seedney: I want to have a finished product when I buy something... What's wrong with the world - iPhones without chargers and headphones - TVs without speakers... Maybe we should have toilets without flush??
@seedney: I have sony Oled TV with dead pixels from factory... but... even with that broken panel, the image is better than on brand new, but not calibrated screen... The screen vibrates to create sound.. But I've never noticed it...
@1622steve: Early TVs were FM radios with a little window for the picture. The audio systems were impressive! As CRTs got bigger, the audio got smaller until it became a watt or two with an oval speaker barely wider than the voice coil.
@TrainsAndWellbeing: This one really takes the [insert Disney character name or type of fluid]! I get annoyed about TV’s high and that I recently found a cable management company offering a neat conduit so that your sound bar can be way below the screen; an important part of home cinema is to put the sound as close to the screen as possible!
Theoretically the best solution is a projector with a sonically transparent video screen with the centre speaker behind in the middle so that characters talk from where you see them on the screen. Another nice option is phantom centre from stereo front speakers on the same horizontal plane as the TV. A number of years ago I setup a home cinema system with perfect sonic balance on all 5 full-range channels by getting 5 identical 90’s bookshelf speakers and wall mounting them just below the modern flat TV. The system looked odd but sounded nice with the lights off watching movies; no need for a custom centre speaker design and I even kept the centre channel mounted tall so that the woofers and tweeters of the front 3 speakers matched their horizontal plane.
I definitely think there are cases for soundbars where positioning multiple speakers can be disruptive as that to me is better than having a TV in the corner of a room and sound coming from a soundstage where the TV is not centre, but I would suggest something made by a reputable Hi-fi manufacturer, or even a high end streaming speaker system like the ones by Naim.
In terms of fake I’m the opposite. I once had plans to make a period sat-nav / media system in a 1978 car so was wondering how to curve an LCD screen to make it look like a CRT. Some people even use modern Mac mini’s inside iMac G3 cases to preserve the classic design of the CRT iMac’s.
<sarcasm> I’m off to put some Apple stickers onto my HP Tower Workstation so that I can tell people it’s a Mac Pro! </ sarcasm>
@charlesbabbage6725: I have a soundbar but no TV. It's for the PC monitor. Sounds OK and that's enough for everyday use. Music is played through Headphones. My requirements are growing dramatically. Soundbars are supposed to deliver sounds where there are no or almost no sounds. There are enough other things for a great sound.
@bgravato: Great times for being a chiropractor I guess... With this TV too high / over the fireplace plague that seems quite popular in the USA and apparently now is starting to spread into Europe as well...
By the way, fake fireplaces are a thing too... And quite popular as well apparently
@AudioMasterclass replies to @bgravato: Fake fireplaces.. It really doesn't surprise me. But why have a fake fireplace when you could have a fake stellarator?
@bgravato replies to @bgravato: @AudioMasterclass Good question! Maybe because of what their visiting friends could think or ask? You don't want to be that awkward friend with a stellarator in the living room, do you? ;-)
@atoptip6193: There is a solution to manufacturers stopping to make “real” equipment — vintage speakers! They sound great and, like a 13-year old dog, will appreciate a loving home.
@richiereyn: I have a couple of Sony OLED TVs where the sound is produced by a vibrating screen. They are way too tinny for my liking, so on the one set I added a sound bar and turned off the TV's speaker system in the software. It sounded way better. But for the other bigger set, I use proper speakers in a stereo setup. I can't be bothered with surround, stereo is good enough. The centre image is so good that when listening to mono programmes, the sound appears to come directly from the set anyway, and a stereo movie sounds exceptionally good.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @richiereyn: It doesn't surprise me if they are tinny. I can see the vibrations of a woofer cone at low frequencies so I'd have to presume than in these TVs the LF is filtered.
@paulcridland5230: I have the Arcam Solo and sub, it is a behemoth compared to Sound Bars that are released now but it does shake the walls when turned up! I also have a traditional hifi set up :)
@traildoggy: Quick tip: If you steal the hood ornament from a Mercedes-Benz and mount it on your own car people will assume that you have a very expensive stereo in there with all of that fancy talking phone stuff built in too.
@pantegministries: To help with dialogue for a LG TV.
@LapsangTe: I have never understood why you should buy an expensive sound bar. It's much better to plug your TV into your stereo amplifier. I did that already back in the nineties.
@ThomasTVP: You can also buy a cheap soundbar from China and just NEVER turn it on. 😉 You're right of course. Even a budget pair of bookshelf speakers will outperform a substantially more expensive soundbar and improve the sound of your TV more, especially in music reproduction.
@IndigoDavei: I'm starting to wonder if having the TV 'too high' might not be such a bad idea. I think the varifocals would like it (that's it, really). The only downside I can see is that everyone in the room would need a reclining chair. But, as the TV is really thin now, you can't put your vase and photo frames on it, so you're avoiding that 'near the ceiling TV mantle decor' disaster anyway. I don't think I need a soundbar though. But a false chimney breast that hides the cabling? Maybe.
@DJStanSteel: I Do have a less than £100 Phillips Soundbar. Few years old connected to my TV in the bedroom… has a bass bin plugged in… works great and uses the main remote. Only for the TV. Connected to my PC in the bedroom (where I work with music) is a THX certified Logitech sound system… the bass bin makes the sound bar sound like a tin can. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
@barlow2976: Luckily I have no neighbours to impress, and hardly watch t.v anyway.
Their fake sound bars say more about them than they realise, and it is rather depressing.
@jimhines5145: I have never owned a Sound Bar. but I have recommended them to people asking me about them. Simply because they are not tech savoy or audiophiles. Some even wear hearing aids. I love my big box speakers and only watch movies in stereo. Great sound and huge bass. 7.1 is really overkill.
@thepuma2012 replies to @jimhines5145: I suppose one could go to a cinema for surround sound, instead of buying all the equipment for that at home....
@jimhines5145 replies to @jimhines5145: @thepuma2012 Oh, I have the equipment. Two full 7.1 systems (Onkyo). I just don't use them any more. My pristine Pioneer SX-780 sounds freaking amazing! I flipped between the Onkyo 7.1 system and the Pioneer 2.0 system and the family vote was for the Pioneer. To each their own, of course.
@thepuma2012 replies to @jimhines5145: @jimhines5145 i can imagine that, because in AV recievers there is a lot more going on and power is distributed between all the speakers (and that is not as much power as stated in the manuals from AV recievers). All the extra electronic components for processing and so on will influence the sound, i suppose.
@stevesutcliffe5805: I use the real KURO soundbar as a fake centre channel speaker.
@1974UTuber: I have a fake front wall with inset front door behind which I hide my 2 person tent and multiple cardboard boxes. It's all the rage these days to simply put up a good Facade 😂
@rabit818: I remember many eons ago, Yamaha had a sound bar with more than a dozen drivers. Any good
Magnepan Vibrating TV Screen.
@hellomeatrobots: Phil has the right idea.
@mypetdrgn: my sound bar comes with or without nuts milk or dark chocolate
@MGoudsmits: So right about the position of the TV, way to high. By the way my last Tube TV had a separate speaker pair and supported stereo.
My sound bar (BOX) is a Bowers and Wilkins 702 center speaker. HTM71 S2.
https://youtu.be/xOucE9q2_jI
@ChrisTaylor-dz6nk: Stereo 😢two way 😅thats it.😅
@MrCandude: I want to hear a demo of Audio Phil’s fake soundbar!
@MrCandude: Like Fernando used to say, it’s better to look good than to sound good.
And that faux soundbar looks mahvelous!
@bluelines1792: My soundbar is too high, oh dear.
@s_r_v: Very funny video!!!!
For me the sound has always been more important than the picture... and when watching a film a sub that makes your house shake is even better ;-) I guess our neighbours wish we had a fake soundbar though
😆
@voskresenie- replies to @s_r_v: Yep. People can easily forgive bad picture, but they can't forgive bad sound. One of Netflix's major innovations in streaming (now standard everywhere) was to, above all else, prioritize smooth audio. That's not to say the audio quality is the best possible, but even if the video stutters or drops in quality due to poor connection, the audio will continue and not drop in quality until the connection becomes so slow/unstable that it can't even manage to keep the sound going. With streaming before that time, if the video stuttered, the audio typically would, too, and it was infuriating. Good video looks good and bad video looks bad, but good audio feels good and bad audio feels bad.
@ricktotty2283: I have Yamaha YSP 4000. It is a digital sound projector. It’s in words, good enough! My wife likes it because it’s the only speaker you have to have in our main viewing room. Of course you have to have a subwoofer. She’s happy I’m happy. Good enough is good enough.
@Warpedsmac: Hi from Australia David, I'm 57 and I think back on it with great joy, the experience of visiting the plethora of hi-fi retailers all around Sydney and even in the Sydney suburbs. Even the major department stores in the 1970s and 80s carried Pioneer and Onkyo as a standard stock item. I guess my point is here is that the evolution of "hi-fi" has, in part, become a de-evolution particularly among younger people (my step-daughters are exceptions; products of their hi-fi environment). Great hi-fi has remained because people who appreciate it are prepared to pay for it...companies like PS Audio, PMC, Fosi, B&W, Dohmann etc etc exist thankfully because just enough people know it's worth it. My own approach and a typically nostalgic one is to use "vintage" hi-fi. I think my old Sansui's sound great and all have been upgraded to maintain performance; I make my own speakers from scratch using Humble Homemade HiFi's designs from Holland....A soundbar is a cheap cure bit it is generally better than the TV speakers....but not much.
@Harjawaldar: Soundbars are very popular i normie homes where interior is more important than sound
@jimbeveridge5185: David, luv your videos . Can you devote one to behind the scenes The making of Audio Phil ?
@michaeldeloatch7461: I am so old, I can remember when a SALAD BAR was all the rage. Sound bars or unsound bars?
@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez: I had to choose between "big" sound or big screen. I chose big sound. Great advise about speakers and TV placement. Thank you.
@sergiobisonte: i've never seen a soundbar in front of me in my life... only pictures
@slevengrungus: I don't have a soundbar and I don't know why I would want one. I don't even know what they do that a set of speakers dont
@Suaveone1 replies to @slevengrungus: It sounds better than most speakers and looks better
@jC-kc4si: Fake soundbar panel reminds me of people in the 80s who insisted on hiding their crt tvs inside large wooden cabinets with closing doors as if they were embarrassed an item they considered vulgar was actually present inside their home.
@1974UTuber replies to @jC-kc4si: I think you are thinking of the 1960's when TVs were made that way and a piece of furniture.
@voskresenie- replies to @jC-kc4si: I don't think they were embarrassed, I think they just thought it was ugly — and it is, people have just gotten used to it. (Although to be fair, modern tech is more aesthetic than tech in the 80s and 90s.)
I also like the idea of a TV being hidden entirely with doors. I don't even have a TV in my living room, it's in my basement media room, because when there's a TV, it becomes the center of attention. I don't want to watch TV when I have guests over, I want to talk to them. But if there were an aesthetic way to, for example, hide my TV in the wall with a sliding door to cover it when not in use, I would absolutely have one in my living room.
@peters7949: Whilst I don’t like sound bars that create pseudo surround (I seem to be over sensitive to phase effects) a decent stereo one is far preferable to the nasty speakers most modern TVs have.
That said my 65” Sony LCD has a vibrating screen, and, while I don’t normally use it, I am amazed how good it sounds. It does sound like big speakers.
It is disappointing though that Sony did not provide a method of feeding the ‘0.1” LF from an AV amp to use the screen as a simple sub woofer (it would require a method to adjust timing so the LF is in time with main (small) speakers, but that is not rocket science).
That said I will stick with my 4 x LS3/5A BBC designed monitors surround system, for normal TV and music playback.
On soffit mounted speakers, this is popular in very high end ‘cinema’ rooms that very wealthy people build. Many manufacturers make tall shallow versions of their speakers for this market.
But i dread to think what Audio Phil’s Magnaplanear speakers, being bipolar & designed to operate in free space, would sound like embedded in a wall.
I did wonder, however, whether mounting a pair of Quad ESL63 speakers in the wall between two rooms would work, the fronts firing into the living room & rears into the dining room. Admittedly the stereo image would be reversed in the dining room, but it would get over having to have the speakers standing over a meter into the room. Not that I could afford a house big enough or even a pair of ELS63s when I was using them for CD Video Mastering in the 1980s.
@imqqmi: I don't mind all audio over my 4 floor standing speakers. I don't like the sound of small speakers at 'large speaker range'. I do like them for near field listening, ie at my office as PC speakers or for my retro computers. With quad stereo, mono audio (ie narrator like David) is very localized in the faux center, as though a center channel speaker or dare I say it a cheap soundbar is placed.
My mother tried one once but it wasn't a success. An extra remote, and boomy sound, it was quickly returned to the shop. I don't use a TV either. I have a PC with a 27" monitor on an arm that can swing away and pulled closer when needed. I use it for streaming, watching movies (it looks like a 100" TV at close range) and I can use it as PC monitor for fusion 360 (wood/metal working hobby). I have a 50" plasma tv but hardly ever use it with the monitor setup. Sometimes when I need a second display I turn on the TV.
@grandadgamer8390: Glad u mentioned the hight of tv panels on walls, don't get it 😂
@HaraldBergTechTv: I considered a soundbar, but went with a 2.1 system and I am happy with my decision
@RaymondReeves-db8dr: David, virtually real or absolutely fake you decide ? You have given me a great idea, I'm surprised that nobody else has thought of this before. Why not have VU meters incorporated in part of the toolbar option on youtube ? Just think; how cool it would be, being able to listen to all of that great music that's available in pure digital HD quality, while at the same time being able to monitor the level of the audio signal. Useful possibilities that are available to the bored music lover. are : There could either be a discrete pair of meters that occupy opposite corners of the TV screen, (L and R) or, better still the whole of the screen could be converted into 2 giant VU meters. By having VU meters as part of the content, would let the listener know when the audio level of youtubes content is being broadcast at an insanely loud level.(most of the time). Seriously though, by utilizing VU meters in conjunction with the volume control on the toolbar would actually serve as a useful function control, and not a gimmick. It might teach some people to understand just how important it is to have the correct level on any input source Or it can be used for something just to gaze at and looking good while dreaming of getting something better in quality from ebay or Douk Audio😁
@Cypeq: Most if not all big hi-fi brands that offer home theatre solutions have a range of in wall mounted options, unless you are enthusiast that will change speakers from time to time it's a good option to have audio out of the way and you are setup for life I guess.
@artysanmobile: Speaking honestly about your soundbar can reward you with newfound confidence.
@emiel333: I owned such a bulky tv with built in subwoofer and pseudo surround speakers. It was from Philips. Quite good sound back then.
@eDrumsInANutshell: TV sound in my dining area is definitely less important as my edrum VST ...men's cave setup.
We have terrible room acoustics.
Same goes for the living room.... So, for show and some bass I got a pair of huge NUMAN speakers...
@SteveHuffer: I've been on a home theatre journey for twenty-five years, give or take. The problem with surround sound is that it's a bit gimmicky and I don't find it as immersive as I thought it would be when I started buying systems. You tend to forget about it whilst watching a great film or program, only occasionally noticing a whoosh every now and then. In fact, I found myself distracted often by fretting whether the surround sound was working, or on the right technology for my system (not helped by some smart TVs resetting when performing updates). I'd shush everyone up while I flounced round the room, ear honed in on a ceiling-mounted speaker to see if anything was coming out of it.
I still have a reasonably expensive surround setup in the lounge, but also a bedroom system with a stereo Denon DRA and some Monitor Audio Bronze floorstanders, which sound much better to me. This probably cost more than most people would spend, but has the advantage of doubling as a great music system. Also, if you believe that speakers (and amps, and DACs) benefit from burn-in and regular use, then having them as TV speakers ensures that they are at optimal performance all the time.
@rienpost: I have a fake flat screen behind which I hide my CRT and VHS recorder.
@AnalogX64 replies to @rienpost: Heck yea, and an NES or SNES to make full use of that CRT
@earthoid: I added a soundbar to my flat TV because its tiny speakers face the rear wall. They sound horrible and have a lost in space trait. The soundbar greatly improves TV sound but is laughable/painful at reproducing music. BTW, my big TV sits on a low console so I won't need the services of a chiropractor for a TV-too-high-on-the-wall neck.
@stevefisher172: Ha hum haha you need to improve your delivery.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @stevefisher172: No thank you.
@davids4610: Recently upgraded to a LG OLED C3 and found its speakers good enough to pass along my old soundbar. Of course I have the TV flanked by my lovely Polk speakers.
@jC-kc4si replies to @davids4610: Your LG probably also has Bluetooth sound output that you can connect to bt equipped soundbars,avrs, headphones etc. Some of the higher end LG tvs have atmos too.
@kimlarsen1632: Amazing a god video from you 😳
@peters7949 replies to @kimlarsen1632: David is good, but I don’t think I will worship him 😊
@gerardvanwinssen7958: There's nothing wrong with proper sarcasm, David once more proved..😂
@paulmcdonough9595: Thank you for another entertaining video.
Perhaps it’s just me but I’ve never felt the need to buy a sound bar for most of the TV I watch, (spoken word) is that how you say it? I remember seeing and hearing my first home cinema system at a client’s house, of course he turned it up and when the effects chimed in I nearly x#%* myself! If I really need decent sound, to say enjoy the proms I’ll connect my stereo to the TV for the occasion. My stereo has real speakers attached.😊
@andymouse: Mental, it's all topsy turvy and I thought the modern consoles were meant to be displayed. Anyway madness creating a sound bar 'effect' to make it look expensive, reminds me of a guy from Burgess Hill who has just been jailed for counterfeiting 10p coins, he was caught red handed filing off the edges of a 50p piece....cheers.
@voskresenie- replies to @andymouse: to be honest I kind of like the idea of hiding all that stuff. I find that when those things are visible, I tend to select the best-looking product rather than the best-performing one — that's not to say the performance doesn't matter and I only care about appearances, but if, say, there are two sets of speakers where one sounds slightly better but looks significantly worse, I'll pick the one that sounds slightly worse and looks significantly better. Or, more often, if there are two sets that perform comparably, but one looks nicer but is significantly more expensive, I'll spend the extra money to get the better looking ones. The more that things can be hidden, the less the appearance influences my decision and results in worse performance or spending more money.
As an example, I'm considering getting a WiiM mini or a WiiM pro. The Pro costs 50% more and I don't need any of the features it provides over the Mini (and has an identical DAC), but I'm probably going to end up getting it because it looks much nicer.
@cosmicalsounds: I bought one for my mother last Christmas because I wanted one and partly because she deserved it. It's a relatively cheap one by Vizio. It has a subwoofer and a couple speakers which project amazing quality sound compared to our aging TV speakers. I do have two tall speakers but I'm not sure how to get everything setup with it. I usually use those to blast music for my own enjoyment
@marxman00: A sound barth??I have fully transitioned to headphones..If im actually goint to listed to anything for its "immersive" qualities then i dont need the ambience of a room and other humans disturbing the importance of "the mix!".. anyone calling themselves an audiophile who does not exclusivle use headphones is charlatan.... heed me...( with your Heedphones..obviously)
@barlow2976 replies to @marxman00: A late night?
@ericdere: Stereo? Not on the old Grundig (or was it Erres? I can’t remember). It caught fire once and was repaired!
@archiemacdonald553: shame on you David 😅 lol me too 😂
@lohphat: I have a small cramped flat. The TV and soundbar are mounted on the wall. The internal speakers of the TV are mediocre and the additional soundbar and subwoofer helps without annoying my neighbors.
@paulstubbs7678: I have a sound bar, in my junk pile, far from my TV
@Audiodreamer192-24 replies to @paulstubbs7678: That’s the best place for it 👍