Can only audiophiles hear the fault in this recording? [Part 2]
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Friday November 1, 2024
David Mellor
David Mellor is CEO and Course Director of Audio Masterclass. David has designed courses in audio education and training since 1986 and is the publisher and principal writer of Adventures In Audio.
@zorglub667: from someone who has worked as audio engineer for 30 years and has programmed about a dozen VST plugins: pretty much any chorus type plugin will do things like these, after all, a chorus will only apply LFO controlled offsets in either time or pitch or both to create this widening effect.
of course, usually you would only add a little bit of chorus to an original dry signal. also, of course even if one were to go with the 100% wet approach, one wouldnt choose to randomly switch (or rather: glitch) back to a dry mono signal. also, the changes in the timing offsets of left and right channel are quite a bit too "jumpy" to be based on a LFO.
so this is either someone who wildly automated a chorus plugin to sound exactly this bad and glitchy, or, hot take, something entirely different happened. this whole thing sounds a bit as if someone had encoded left and right channel independently in two passes. with some really old encoder algorithm. super super old encoding algorithms (think late 90s bladeenc or stuff like that) were pretty loose with the timing, to the point where you could hear slight hiccups in the groove of a track.
so my best guess is that someone used a really really old and shitty encoding algorithm, and had set it to individual left/right encoding in hopes to get more quality out of it. that would lead both to the subtle drift between left and right but also occasional random timing hiccups, and the occasional lucky moments where left and right are almost perfectly in sync by accident.
however, since i cant imagine how someone would even get his hands on such an old encoder these days, i cant completely exclude the much more horrible option that someone with very few brain cells automated a chorus plugin until it sounded this bad.
@martineyles: I heard this type of sound on an advert whilst watching youtube with the sound going through my main hifi speakers and noticed an effect I hadn't before. When the audio phasing changes, it sounds like the audio is coming from next to my head, rather that from the speakers. It was earie to hear the audio move so far forward in a way I don't normally experience with stereo music through the same speakers, but makes the voice really stand out. I hadn't experienced the effect through headphones (the audio already being next to your head meaning it doesn't stand out) or through my phone (the speakers are stereo, but you also hold a phone fairly near to your head relative to where you play hifi speakers).
@MichaelStrick9: The scary thing is people are being conditioned to not only accept this, but to start thinking this is correct and the way things should sound. Other examples in recent decades include crappy MP3 encoders that sound all worbly-garbly, streaming music with variable bitrates that also sound worbly-garbly, Bluetooth that sounds even more worbly-garbly, vertical video that eliminates the viewers ability to see 2/3 of what is going on, the "voice isolation" plug ins that sound muffled and garbly (especially annoying when people are recording in a relatively controlled space and there's no need to isolate it), AI voices and images, and most recently people who hold lav mics right up to their mouths directly on axis that results in horrendous clipping.
People who want to do all of these things the actual right way are now being chastised as being in the wrong. Next step is the government will mandate spraying the crops with Brawndo and anyone who wants to use water on the crops will be mercilessly mocked.
@IlBiggo: Trying to make the voice pop out is what I usually do (in a creative way? More in a "break stuff and find out" way). Widening/stereoizing plugins are getting better, but a bit of manual tinkering can be more fun. One of the things I do is speeding up/slowing down one of the channels, or applying a very slow tremolo. The result is similar to the effect in this audio sample.
I don't find it "horrible": it's advertising, everything is fair if it catches your ear.
@ooievaar: Two months ago, I took a subscription for Youtube (13 Euro per month).
I also don't watch televison (saves 23 Euro a month).
Conclusion: I am not bothered by commercials anymore !
(I do have fast internet and a newspaper)
@clicks59: Definitely intentional. It's a fishing expedition.
@naibafabdulkobor4301: The link to part 1 in the description actually links to this same video (part 2). :)
@dry-cleaning6255: I hear comb-filtering when you play it in mono. Probably some cheesy plugin applying Haas effect and taking a few extra steps to make it less obvious.
It can also be done manually, in various ways, but somehow I doubt anyone who thought this sounds good went that far into slicing the audio.
@Real1138Me: She also has two right hands part way through the video.
@nocastus: Many years ago, I had to try to rescue some rare radio session band recordings for CD release. Trouble was, the only source available was a cassette recorded on a cheap portable from an early 70s FM stereo broadcast, and the only playback machine I had available was a high end stereo deck, a studio Nakamichi. That combination - FM stereo with drifting phase plus cassette instability - sounded a lot like this. In the end I had to use just one channel. Maybe some misapplied tape sim plugin, with modulation to simulate flutter and snaking could create this effect. Though that still leaves the question of why.
@Theatre_Of_Noise: Dude, you would make an amazing Bond villain.
@meindertsprang7491: It's definitely a smooth varying but small delay between the channels. Your waveforms already showed that. Because the shifts are very tiny, like a half wave at dominant frequencies, you get the same effect as wiring your speakers out of phase. The mono-mix you created confirms this because that sounded exacly like listening to a shortwave radio station that suffers from phasing: a phenomenon where the radio signal reaches the receiver through multiple, varying paths due to atmosphering influences. The resulting mono signal appears like it has been fed through a notch filter with varying frequency.
@TheTemporalAnomaly replies to @meindertsprang7491: That is a very good analogy, (Shortwave phasing.)
@georgevoulgarakis8894: Notice that whenever she says "Audible" or "amazon" the signal is clean and mono, while when talking nonsense and stories about her mother etc. it is colored / processed. Not a coincidence of course. They know that people don't pay attention to commercials but will probably remember the brand name if that is the only clean part of the audio that stands out.
@IvanToman: It is done intentionally, because some "clever" human being thought it sounds "interesting" and will catch attention better.
@antonmagzmagoo: My closest guess is it is a speed up effect on a video editor app/program. My wife creates videos for Tiktok and they use this a lot to speed up some parts of the video so they would end within a minute or so. It might be that effect paired with the recording from a smartphone/iPhone mic which records in stereo. Something weird that the video editor's algorithm does.
@graemedavidson499: A missed opportunity for some hidden Jerobeam vector imagery!
@AudioMasterclass replies to @graemedavidson499: Swerved I would say. I admire it greatly but if I were to cover it, it would deserve its own dedicated video.
@graemedavidson499 replies to @graemedavidson499: @ Sorry, I was meant if Audible had embedded some sonic vector animation in the sound, there would be even more discussion and free publicity :)
@skycracksopen: Are you running Stereo Tool standalone, or through a DAW? I've been looking for a good way to run it standalone, but haven't found one. I do a lot of live sound, and don't need a whole DAW running, but it would be nice to check a vectorscope on occasion.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @skycracksopen: In Pro Tools. I can't help on this occasion but maybe https://www.flux.audio/ can advise.
@peters7949: Bizarrely I find the audio less horrible while watching it on the vector scope.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @peters7949: Maybe because of the pretty patterns. I could watch them all day. The odd thing is that the more awful the audio, the more beautiful they are.
@johnnydingo8680: My guess is the video was sponsored by Audible. It is an audibly annoying ad only to be surpassed by monotonic presentations. 😂
@keithandrewneal: This sounds like a 3year old was let loose on the mixing desk.
@gregsadler410: The mucking about with AI on this channel is its most tedious feature.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @gregsadler410: No, surely I win that prize.
@gregsadler410 replies to @gregsadler410: @AudioMasterclass oh god no , you are great. A fantastic inspiration for the Value of vitamin supplements and Viagraa
@AudioMasterclass replies to @gregsadler410: And my cryogenic sleep pod.
@cosmoshfa88savant66: Subbed!!!!!
@skycracksopen: Everyone keeps saying phase when they mean polarity. When polarity is flipped, the signal is inverted. Phase has to do with a time shift, not a positive/negative flip.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @skycracksopen: You’re not wrong, but you’ll have a hard time getting people to be precise about this. My view is that anyone learning audio will soon get used to the appropriate contexts, just as in electricity we work with conventional current and things don’t go too wrong.
@TheTemporalAnomaly replies to @skycracksopen: Polarity inverts the phase by 180 degrees. Phase shift can do the same, advancing or retarding under user (or computer) control. Polarity has two states, Lets say 0deg and 180deg, phase has an infinite number of states. You nailed it with the phrase - "Phase has to do with a time shift, not a positive/negative flip." AC electronics, especially audio and radio broadcast can be a minefield or confusing terms.
@skycracksopen replies to @skycracksopen: @TheTemporalAnomaly Right, a polarity flip can help with phase problems sometimes, like if you have 2 mics on the same drum and the waveforms are canceling each other out. But it sounds like you already know that 😁
@nuescu: I guess it's a 4-5 channel recording; two channels planned L-R, one flanged, one in reverse phase, one in phase and all faders are randomly played with.
@GeirRssaak: No,audiophiles are very unhappy people! They allways fear that they must upgrade a component in their system! Do not think they care about music at all!
@ConorHanley: I Started watching this video without realising that horrendous audio wasn't an ad, though it is, but part of the video. Hate ads but this was one of the worst I'd ever experienced. Suppose someone must have done the research to see if it was effective and if it is my opinion of the human race has sunk. How could anyone listen to it nevermind be convinced of its message.
@jazzboy: What the actual fricassee???
@ossiebacchus7110: Trouble is with this series is if you don't hear anything you get people scrambling around for new kit thinking they have crap gear😉
@BlankBrain: The most annoying thing was that she kept farting.
@barlow2976: Huh! Next you'll be claiming the girls aren't real.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @barlow2976: I asked them and they replied that true ladies never tell.
@kyleo2113: Hmm. Is it focusing key words - simple, paid, audible - subliminal messaging?
@AudioMasterclass replies to @kyleo2113: This is definitely a possibility.
@wmrg1057: Ads and commercials don't encourage me to buy a product, but sure as hell, will get me not to.
If this is an example of the audio quality they put out why would I want to listen to it. Not to mention her voice is annoying in general.
@AK-vx4dy: I still think this are AI generated sounds, but some put in two separate chains to generate "stereo" without any idea how stereo works...
Or it is just some software glitch/bug... those strange blips at the ends are beyond getting attention.
@oijans: Try AI translating into another language and both the language and the sound are like three arms, six fingers and a half leg.
@packman03: That is a very unusual puzzle. I was hoping for a definite answer, but maybe someone will sleuth it out in the future.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @packman03: This is why we have comments.
@Douglas_Blake_579: First ... I find it deeply ironic that an ad for "Audibles" has bad audio.
Second... if you listen carefully there is a scraping sound before the voice goes nuts and another one before it somehow gets right, each time... It clearly is deliberate and appears to be done manually.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @Douglas_Blake_579: Your second point reveals that there could be more to this than someone making an accidental mess.
@Douglas_Blake_579 replies to @Douglas_Blake_579: @AudioMasterclass
Somebody thought it sounded "cool".
@TheTemporalAnomaly replies to @Douglas_Blake_579: I hate this effect, but I too could hear the scraping sound and I thought it was meant to be the pound notes rolling in. Kind of like a `paper` sound. This kind of audio just drives me away!
@kbjerke: Excellent video, Caretaker!! 😉
@odmusicman replies to @kbjerke: I actually know what you are referring to; the Star Trek Episode Shore Leave. You're spot on with your observation. Never saw Oliver McGowan in any other television.
@kbjerke replies to @kbjerke: @odmusicman I think I left him a message in part 1 about the resemblance, and he very politely replied. Good channel, IMHO.
@odmusicman replies to @kbjerke: Nerds follow each other through life one way or another. Yes I like his channel too.
@kbjerke replies to @kbjerke: @odmusicman You are so right! LOL Live long and prosper!
@rienpost: Something just occurred to me. You know how there are very obvious spelling errors in scam emails? They are there on purpose, to filter people who won't fall for it out from the start. Maybe this bad audio is a similar trick.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @rienpost: Good point.
@Harrison-kt5xr: When I was in college, back in the 80s, I had a job selling stereo equipment in a sort of mid tier shop, which was "high end" for the small town where the shop and college were. The owner advertised on radio and tv and I thought the ads were annoying so I pointed that out to the owner. He informed me the point of an ad is to get people to remember them, not to try to be a great ad. That apparently worked very well. The owner really is the best salesman I have ever met.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @Harrison-kt5xr: Very relevant point.
@yl9154 replies to @Harrison-kt5xr: For a particularly effective advertisement campaign, they used a person with a strikingly annoying voice/pronunciation. It annoyed everyone to no end. But when people went shopping for that product, that was the brand that stood-out in their mind, that they were familiar with, so they chose that brand.
@davewestner: Gotta be a Freakshow Industries offering
@stevesmyth4982: If you can't find an app that does it then get a Kyma system - you will never need any more apps.
@michaeldeloatch7461: @3:10 -- I could not have felt more moved if the late Sir John Gielgud had spoken my written words. You make me sound so erudite, so ... British!
@AudioMasterclass replies to @michaeldeloatch7461: Aha, here we have the philosopher. I hope your portrait did you justice.
@michaeldeloatch7461 replies to @michaeldeloatch7461: @AudioMasterclass It was rendered with perfect fidelity to my actual likeness -- naturally.
@D1N02: Advertiser be warned. Annoy me and I will never buy your products ever!
@TheTemporalAnomaly replies to @D1N02: This kind of advertising drives me away from products, pushing on my avoid button. There are also some pop singers using what sounds like a ring mixer on their vocal highs, it grates an my nerves and can`t listen. One does it first, then everybody follows!
@trabouliste1037: Glitch effects are popular today
@1Hiprascal: I've got no problem with content having advertisements.
My objection is with how it's done. Loud volumes, yelling and clucking, flashing images, noise background.
I've become mostly desensitized to ads but...I worry what their next tactic will be.
@1Hiprascal: Bingo...it's sales from captivating attention. Nothing to do with achieving good sound. Flashing ads equivalent.
Modern McMusic is same thinking. Sounds like crap, zero musicality but generate hits, loads. Packaging is more important.
Sounds horrible? Really? I hear way worse daily when out and about.
@TrainsAndWellbeing: An obvious reason why it wasn't simply out of phase is that is someone was listening on a mobile device with a single speaker the two waves would cancel each other out and nothing would be heard: a drastic improvement in my opinion!
@stevecagle8002: Who watches adds anyway... Moreover who cares.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @stevecagle8002: It’s amazing how many people don’t realise that the ads pay me, every other monetised YouTuber, and even YouTube itself. No ads, no YouTube. Suck that up.
@guillermosanchez8784: Isn't it the CHORUS effect between the L and R channel, where the delay is aleatory? I think there is a reverb effect too
@frogandspanner: 6:50 Where do the LR components of the sound vectors come from ? Different paths from different parts of the mouth? Ambience? What would it look like in an anechoic chamber?.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @frogandspanner: The ambience of the studio. There isn’t a lot of stereo content coming directly from the human mouth. An anechoic chamber would be more like a close mic.
@frogandspanner replies to @frogandspanner: @AudioMasterclass A friend researching microwave stuff in ElecEng at my university took me into the microwave anechoic chamber, and it was quite painful to hear silence.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @frogandspanner: I was once lucky enough to visit an anechoic chamber. I was also lucky they let me out of it.
@zloboslav_: It's possible that it was bad on purpose - to capture your attention. I don't know really.
@TheTemporalAnomaly replies to @zloboslav_: Most probably.
@XPGlowWorm: I think there seems to be a pattern. The mono sections seem to stress words -- I tried mapping the vector scope graph with the words. It seems whenever there is something to be emphasised as appealing to or making it interesting for the target audience it's in mono (feels focussed to me). Sections say: how it works, how much money potential there is, Audible is generating continuous revenue, you don't stop getting paid, it's really simple, name of product. The rest is filler and in stereo with soundstage all over the place. Thoughts?
@AudioMasterclass replies to @XPGlowWorm: You could be right. It’s a bit like a long form sales letter where important points are highlighted, not only for emphasis in this case but to make the text skimmable while conveying the same message.
@BlankBrain replies to @XPGlowWorm: @AudioMasterclass I listened to it again at 2X playback speed, and it sounds better. Maybe it's just because it's over sooner.
@johnpointon4462 replies to @XPGlowWorm: Just what I was thinking.
There are a few phrases which the authors have determined are 'key' and they are presented relatively clearly - clear bold type in a paragraph of fuzzy printing. Let's call it 'neuro-cognitive subliminal manipulation'.
All sounds very convincing to those paying for the advertising but probably completely ineffective. Certainly very annoying.
@RobWhittlestone replies to @XPGlowWorm: Agree. Exactly my thoughts. I never saw a vector scope before so presume Mr Audio Masterclass is an ex professional sound (recording) engineer.
@shipsahoy1793: I get what you're saying Dave, but for me it doesn't really matter. .. Why? .. I loathe commercials and advertising to the point where I turn off from it; even if I have to wait a few seconds to skip a commercial , the few seconds that it's playing, I will completely ignore whatever's being said.😉
@AudioMasterclass replies to @shipsahoy1793: Ads pay for YouTubers and YouTube itself. Having said that, it’s extremely rare for YouTube to show me, as a viewer, anything that is remotely of interest to me. Improvement would be desirable. BTW, who is Dave?
@shipsahoy1793 replies to @shipsahoy1793: @ Understood..
Sorry David, you know those damn uncultured Yankees!😉
@TheTemporalAnomaly replies to @shipsahoy1793: @AudioMasterclass The advertising machinery of You-Tube never manages to show me anything I am remotely interested in.
@therealBozoDjTrump: There's some expansion going on there in her voice, you can have it planning from one side to the other each Channel and then flipping back where the other channel takes over. It just makes me want to turn it off I don't see how that's good production advertising
@pauliusmscichauskas558: Is it not just an Offset plugin, with the delay controlled by an envelope?...
@gordonv.cormack3216: How did they make the soundstage split and converge like that?
@earthoid: They would lose a sale from me because my ears couldn't stand to listen to the whole spiel.
@davidlai1996: I believe it's stereo flanging that's at play in that clip here.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @davidlai1996: A good point. It might even work with a mono flanger in one channel and a fixed delay in the other.
@gordonv.cormack3216 replies to @davidlai1996: Sounds right, though I've never heard the word "flanging." See my comment. What does it mean?
@shipsahoy1793 replies to @davidlai1996: @gordonv.cormack3216multiple phase shifters
@frogandspanner replies to @davidlai1996: @gordonv.cormack3216 It means giving a collection guitars to a flange of gorillas (e.g. Black Sabbath) and getting them to play.
@timothystiles6335 replies to @davidlai1996: @gordonv.cormack3216 It comes from how this effect was done in back in the day. Play two reel to reel tapes and record to a third. While doing that, press on the flange (rim) of one of the playback unit to slow it down a little, then press on the flange to cause it to be slower. Keep swapping the phase back and forth.