Are you ready for tube rolling? [xDuoo TA-26 Tube Headphone Amplifier]
Comments on this video
You can comment on this video at YouTube
You can comment on this video at YouTube
Thursday May 30, 2024
David Mellor
David Mellor is CEO and Course Director of Audio Masterclass. David has designed courses in audio education and training since 1986 and is the publisher and principal writer of Adventures In Audio.
@Smjh123: This is still way too clean for a tube amp. There's barely any harmonics or dynamics. The rays' FR did sound interesting though!
@logotrikes: I've been out of music for a long time obviously because I don't know the tune or the singer. It was rather good and I'd like more. Can some tell me the song and the singer. I was rather drawn to that short sound clip, more so than the differences between tubes...
@AudioMasterclass replies to @logotrikes: It's me. I use my own music for avoidance of copyright problems and it's free (for me). I'm David Mellor and I'm on streaming and Bandcamp. The song is from 'The Nightfall'. It was a long time ago.
@logotrikes replies to @logotrikes: @AudioMasterclass Ok, thanks David, that's a real surprise. It sounds modern. I must look into it further...
@XtianApi: There's definitely a tube type distortion on the voice that I can blind a/B. It makes the voice more pleasing and easier on the ears
@G.InBlues: Difference is just on equalization.. More bass, less hights with tubes..as usual.
@jukingeo: I do have a decent computer system, while I can hear the differences it is VERY hard with the You Tube compression and other issues with the digital file transfer and reproduction here. That said, I DO hear a difference. My take on it is in agreement with what others said below. The clean sound was the best in terms of the overall reproduction. It most likely was the truest to the sound because, outside of the You Tube compression, etc, it IS! Now with the stock tube, it seems to me as if the high end became slightly more dull, but it was very close. With the Ray tubes the highs became more duller yet and the bass seemed less full and overall the distortion seemed a bit higher. Could the dulling of the high end could be that warm sound people talk about with tubes? Could the added distortion I heard more with the Ray Tubes 6SN7 could also be that 'warming effect'.
Well, to shine a bit more light on the scene, I happen to own this headphone amp myself and I have a pair of Sennheiser 600's on it. I have ALSO, done just the swapping out of the driver or the 6N8P tube. However, I have done the test with used old stock tubes using a 6SN7 of the following brands: GE, RCA, Du Mont, Hit Ray, Philco and Sylvania. Of the bunch, the Hit Ray was the only one that was NOS and not used before. It was also the worst sounding of all the tubes I tested. It had the most distortion. So I rejected it, right away. It could possibly be that I need to break that tube in and try to listen to it again. Of the lot, the Sylvania and the Du Mont sounded the best. The Du Mont was more warm sounding with less high end than the Sylvania, but it also had the least distortion. It also had less gain and I figured that it probably had the most wear. So far, I been a bit intrigued by the sound of this tube and I have kept it in the amplifier.
Now, the reason why I have not swapped out the output tube yet is that it just looks WAY cool. The shouldered bottle shape and the way it lights up has me sold. By direct comparison, a 6080 tube is the electrical equivalent and it is a short, stubby, straight sided tube and looks quiet boring. PSVane has a couple 6SN7's in their lineup which I would like to try, but they are damn expensive!
@clnelsontube: This review is like putting a microphone in front of 2 different bottles of cologne and letting us decide which smells better.
@clnelsontube: Sorry, but this is a completely useless demo.
Would have been better to not do it than to misinform people.
I have this amp, I have rolled the tubes. It sounds amazing with HD600 headphones.
If the only information I had about this amp came from you, I probably would not have purchased.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @clnelsontube: I don't think you are sorry, and neither am I. If you don't like my reviews then don't watch them.
@TheTechnicsfan: Question to anyone who has this or other OTL xDuoo: can I connect the headphone out to a line in and use it as pre-amp that way? Line in has very high impedance (like 10K ohm or more) and does not need much current.
@artureff3046: There is no information about the source nor additional equipment. Nothing can be heard on YT with low resolution below 2440p anyway.
@willielast: Hi. I'm wondering if you can explain to me how a demo like the one you provided here, would work for us viewers at home? We are listening with our own headphones or speakers or phones, and with our own dacs & amps. How is it possible to demo something like this after its gone through our chain, plus You Tube compression?
@AudioMasterclass replies to @willielast: Some things are possible, some are not. Sometimes one has to do the best one can, or not do it at all.
@4ujase: It would would be lovely if you can review the budget tube king of the head amps, the XDUOO TA-66. I was able to tube roll with excellent results, replacing the generic 6N2 and 6N5P with Psvane 6SL7 Art series converter adapter required (Jemosa 6SN7/6SL7 to 6N2) and Sovek 6SA7G. This tube headamp is retailing about £249 :)
@kenaiello4851: Going to try one for a preamp going into reisong A10 power amp
@kenaiello4851 replies to @kenaiello4851: Put a Ray tube in my TA26s i like it
@nyquist5190: To my ears the singer seems to move slightly to the right with the Ray tubes. A slight channel imbalance issue, perhaps? On the whole my ears seemed to prefer the 'clean' option. This was with HD600 headphones.
@EmmanuelIstace: Would say, if you TRULY want to listen to tubes, get a Vox, Marshall or Orange, then when you realize what it does to your sound, contact me, I'll be happy to buy it back from you for half the price and grow my collection <3
@johnchildress8707: I've learned a new term: observational Bias.since I have none in this case, I think, with my aged ears, I don't hear any difference, or at least very little.
@ss9749: I wish I could say I could tell the difference between the clean, standard tube, and premium tube, but I couldn't... at least through headphones plugged into a DAC plugged into my computer watching you tube. They all sounded good, but maybe the clean sounded, well cleaner in the vocals. I really can't tell though. I can say I didn't hate any of them. I have a decent tube amp for my guitar and I can tell the difference between the cheap tubes that were in it when I bought it and the vintage Westinghouse tubes from the 1960's I upgraded it with. So, in real life I might have heard a difference, but I just didn't hear it on the video.
@ChrisKersten-w9e: Thanks for the review, I just ordered one. I have yet to notice any difference in the demo, I played the video twice and tried to listen carefully. Anyway, I suppose I have been a tube enthusiast for decades, with fond childhood memories of playing with my dad's tube amps. I have a cheap stereo tube amp. After about 1 year of use, it randomly makes static and humming sounds. So, I thought I'd replace it with one of higher quality. I went to a musical instrument website, they have about twice as many guitar amps with tubes than solid state. So, for guitar players, both tube and solid state are popular, with tubes easily the most popular. Anyway, an all-tube guitar amp would cost about an order of magnitude more than my current amp, and several times the cost of the xDuoo. So, I'll take a chance on the xDuoo to add a bit of tube distortion to my music. When faced with the question of tube or solid state, my answer is why not both? Some music sounds better with a more accurate solid state amp, other music sounds better with a tube amp. I also appreciate that solid state is more reliable. Thanks again!
@ChrisKersten-w9e replies to @ChrisKersten-w9e: And an update, I listened to it a third time with headphones, about as accurate as I can get, still can't hear any difference. It could be that YouTube's lossy audio compression masks any differences. Also likely is that if you aren't driving a tube near it's limits, intentionally getting a bit of distortion, there isn't enough distortion to notice. So, I will try to run mine with some distortion dialed in.
@ChrisKersten-w9e replies to @ChrisKersten-w9e: Yet another update, it looks like about a month. I was able to get some distortion, at least when listening to headphones. With a bit of distortion, it sounds good, but a bit different than my all-tube power amp. So, using a relatively low-power headphone amp will give some tube sound, but I have yet to hear something that matches the sound of an all-tube power amp with just a few watts max power. I also haven't tried swapping tubes in the xDuoo, will probably wait until they need replacement. So, the xDuoo is worth it, I listen to it with headphones most days.
@rienpost: 2:21 Just wondering if you've ever poked somebody in the eye. By accident, of course.
@straymusictracksfromdavoro6510: You’ll have to excuse my ignorance which may become blindingly obvious as you read this comment but here goes anyway. I appreciate that you are probably playing an extremely high quality, hi-res digital file through some very high quality equipment in your studio and so you can listen critically and evaluate the quality of the gear that you are reviewing, (within the limitations or otherwise of your hearing). However, what puzzles me is that the demonstration is then being streamed via YouTube and we at the other end of the Internet are then listening to it to try to appreciate or determine the nuances and differences in the reproduction, but doesn’t the very process of the music being streamed over the Internet degrade the quality of what we are hearing, not to mention how the quality of the speakers or headphones that we are listening through will also effect what we hear?
@artysanmobile: Just my opinion but, a headphone amp would be the very LAST place I would use tubes. Phones are, for me, a reference monitor, that one device I can count on to give me a distortion-free portal into my chosen signal. Tubes are world-class distortion generators, with a very gentle onset guaranteeing they are always nonlinear and as if that’s not enough, a carefully curated mix of low order harmonics the quantity of which corresponds to the intoxicant of the listener. So, what good are they in a phones amp?
Anyway, that’s just me.
@chuckmaddison2924: The only time i roll tubes is across the table when they fail.
@Roosville1: It's not a "Tube", it's a "Valve", where on earth were you dragged up ! :- ) "Tube rolling" (Ugh) only works if the circuit design exceeds the guaranteed operating specification of the valve. This could be; 1. The designer was an idiot. 2. The valve has aged to the point it no longer meets the spec sheet. The OTL is basically cost cutting the design, good output transformers are cash intensive. However, it limits the design to high impedance phones, and even then, damping factor goes in the bin. This allows the reactance of the load to become part of the output stage. This said, perfection isn't everyone’s objective. (PS, you would be better off "Headphone-Rolling" as the match of output impedance and load potentially offers a large variation)
@paulmcdonough9595: If I rolled this amp with some ‘medical grade’ tubes would it sound more clinical?
And if I used some ‘mil spec’ tubes would it sound more aggressive?
@Bac4-qu6qg7sk4v replies to @paulmcdonough9595: If you're into an 'airy' presentation I'd recommend you try Aerospace grade. Should you value a 'driving' sound signature, Automotive grade may work best 😎
@chrisquirk4754 replies to @paulmcdonough9595: As a very old audio engineer and electronics designer, I laughed out loud at your comment. Others may have heard it whizz over their head... Lovely.
@s_r_v: thanks for taking the time and illustrating the differences for us, I could only hear a very slight difference, but I did prefer the clean - the voice sounded clearer and more focused, both when I listened on headphones and thru some small desktop speakers... it sounds a bit corny but it felt I could hear more space... I'm sure there's an audiophile term for it that I just don't know ;-) - keep the videos coming, at least I now know I don't need to buy one of those amps...
@damianl3: I like the rays tube over the standard tubes. The clean sounded clinical. The Ray tube had a depth that the standard tube did not have.
@paulstubbs7678: .......2N3055 - as fitted to the amp I'm listening to you on.
So how do I add 'tube warmth', easy, watch one of your video's and let the sound 'waft' through my monitor amp.....
Yes, I am a tight arse.
@Laz_Arus: I roll my tubes most days. I find that if I don't I hear this unpleasant scraping sound ..... coming from under the car. 😉
@przemyslawpraski8985: As an former audio pro, the author should know, making sound comparison over youtube and miserable phone speakers makes no sense at all... Speking of tube rolling - quite costly hobby, when you buy several sets of 7-9 tubes (or more with some amps) and use the best set only 😅
@johnwatrous3058: I couldn't hear any difference at all.
@Spawndukes: I think I liked the one labeled standard tube.
@trottophone: Ages ago, I made a stereo pair of hi-fi valve amps.
After a year or so, I convinced myself that the sound was going downhill.
Perhaps the valves were getting tired?
In went an expensive new set of ECC83, EL34 etc.
It didn't make any difference. Or did it? I couldn't be sure.
The transistor amps I use now are worry-free.
@andymouse: This particular unboxing 'Tune' reminded me of a late 70s early 80s Saturday night action show, like Space 1999 or Randall and Hopkirk (deceased) At least this guy (the amp) is honest unlike some of it's dodgy ebay relatives (distant) and no bloody blue LEDs built into the base. On youtube I think the valve expert is Shango but I must ask have we covered opamp rolling ?....cheers.
@fredashay: I couldn't hear any difference at all.
@TriAmpMyFi: . How do we get a balanced output without a balanced input?
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
@paulstubbs7678 replies to @TriAmpMyFi: Easy, it has a balanced headphone socket, so you can use your balanced phones, However that socket is wired with the negative side of both left & right connected together, to earth.
So it is compatible with your balanced phones whilst not actually having a balanced output from the tubes.
Actually in theory you will have better sound, as in separation as the two drivers in your balanced phones have separate wiring all the way back, it's just lost at the very last point at the single ended tubes
@artureff3046 replies to @TriAmpMyFi: Just for convenience.....
@TriAmpMyFi replies to @TriAmpMyFi: @paulstubbs7678 Hi Paul, IDK how I missed your answer. Thanks. It took me too long to learn about combining the negative leads. Thanks again.
@utube4andydent: So what’s the big fuss over tube amps didn’t the field effect transistor do a similar thing without the big power usage. Oh heck vaults aka tubes have that special sound but to be honest I don’t have that gear yet!!
@cglaurer: Love the chunky UK mains cable. But I’d be handling those tubes with gloves just for the ritualistic aspect.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @cglaurer: I suspect there may be audiophile-grade gloves available. I prefer not to find out the cost.
@thexfile.: Two tubes to paradise. - Eddie Money 😋
@earthoid: It has been a very long time since I had a stereo tube amp. I hated it. It added a continuous low level hum to the sound. Sometimes the normally black metal parts inside the tube would start glowing red hot when powering it on and there would be no audio. It was probably defective or just a bad design and I'm sure this isn't a problem with modern tube amps but once burned twice shy. Anyway, my solid state Parasound amp makes my ears happy and the sound probably won't degrade until the capacitors wear out in the distant future.
@albanana683: I would love to play the tube rolling game. But, untill I find a wealthy benefactor, the cost of good quality 6550 output tubes is prohibitively expensive (NOS GE 6550As are dificult to find, and over $200 each). Mostly a problem for me because I would need 16 of them.
@Douglas_Blake_579: Hoola Hoops for Audiophiles.
@ericdere: As usual, I can’t hear any difference. The song is great though.
@huubvandoremalen: I listen to music, not to "equipment". I can live with how it sounds, at least if it is decent. I did not hear any difference between clean and tubes Maybe YouTube is not good enough for this, but I also was distracted by the way the music was mixed. I would have mixed it different. Which would not be better or worse, only different.
@maxtrue9744: If you think tubes an be changed around why not change the plate load resistors and everything in the bias circuit. Redesign your amp every day.
Tube circuitry is obsolete and should be purely an academic oddity.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @maxtrue9744: And car enthusiasts should definitely not tune, modify or improve their vehicles because everything is fine just as it is.
@Douglas_Blake_579 replies to @maxtrue9744: I agree tubes belong in museums ... but I've never met a circuit yet that can't be improved in some way or another. Designers work on absolute values, manufacturers work on standard values, leading to some compromises. Standard values + tolerances often get far enough from absolute values that fixing the discrepancy can give meaningful results.
Tube-Rolling and Chip-Flipping (op-amps) are a silly game that mostly accomplishes nothing... but the golden ears love it.
@albanana683 replies to @maxtrue9744: @Douglas_Blake_579 It isn't the component values that is the problem. Manufacturers work on component count and cost, often to the detriment of the design as a whole.
If you cannot yourself hear the difference in various tubes and op-amps, then congratulations - you've saved yourself a bunch of time and money. Myself, I'm poorer, but have more options to listen to.
@Douglas_Blake_579 replies to @maxtrue9744: @albanana683
It is exactly component values that are a problem .... A designer calculates 11k, the nearest standard values are 10k or 12k ... both 10% off calculation. And yes that is going to affect the performance of a circuit.
Oh I do hear the differences in tubes. Their tolerances are wild compared to the parts around them, they can be 20% or more off design ideals. Even rolling tubes with the same designators can make audible differences.
Op-amps are a different story. Their tolerances are often in fractions of a percent which ensures consistent behaviour both across a batch but also across designators. Unlike tubes, the chips you are flipping are dominantly controlled by their surrounding parts. The ones in mini-amps are almost always working at very low gains, most are being used as unity gain phase splitters to drive the power amp chip. At those levels, with such tight values, it is beyond unlikely there will be any measurable difference, nevermind one you can hear.
@artureff3046 replies to @maxtrue9744: Sure you can, but it is the whole implementation that works. If you need state of the art things you go elsewhere not chi-fi: Leben, Luxman, Feliks Audio or good 'ole McIntosh, quality and service (life long) matters too.
@slevengrungus: Hm, I cant claim to hear any noteworthy differences. Maybe some slight changes in level between the different tubes and the clean, but that's it.
What I'm thinking is why get a tube amp if you're not gonna drive it a little?
I mean thats the very thing they are good at, adding soft harmonics, fattening the sound
@tubefreeeasy: I recently upgraded my xDuoo TA30 with the new Sophia Aqua II 274b.
You may also want to wipe your tubes free of fingerprint oil.
@roberthaynes4398: I know Youtube videos are not the best source of audio to compare, but I could hear a difference in all 3. I liked the clean the most honestly. The voice was "clearer and had a sharper sound", the second added some noise to the recording and the voice was not as crisp if that makes sense. The 2nd vs the 3rd, I heard more of a difference in the bass line. There was a little more distortion. I don't have much experience with tubes, but for this song I liked the clean sound. I am betting that some music sounds better via tube than others. I would love to test it out more, but I am not sure I want to spend the extra money rolling tubes or investing in a pricey tube amp. As of now I am happy with my system. Thanks for the content.
@ac81017: How much money does one have to spend in order to become an AUDIOPHILE??
@AudioMasterclass replies to @ac81017: $100 or so for a Crosley and a record to play on it. You can develop your audiophilia by listening closely, working out what its limitations are, and deciding on your next step when you can afford it.
@stevengagnon4777 replies to @ac81017: Near $0 ,one can be an audiophile through thrift stores , curb side rummaging and dumpster diving.. that being said it's really about the enthusiasm in obtaining a desired sound. Conversely just throwing money in equipment doesn't necessarily make you a audiophile.
@albanana683 replies to @ac81017: @AudioMasterclassThis is probably the best, and most honest definition of an audiophile. First single I listened to was Mungo Jerry, Alright, Alright, Alright on my parents' Hacker radiogram, in glorious mono. I was barely a teenager, but managed to find a way to add a speaker and create a (very compromised) version of stereo. I count that as my first audiophile adventure. Still mucking about with audio hardware after 50 years.
@ac81017 replies to @ac81017: @stevengagnon4777 So you're saying i've wasted all my money and a acoustically treated room, tube preamp, tube dac, Mcintosh power amp, Gigawatt installation cable and circuit breakers, a pair of Rel carbon sub, power filters, Synergistic research master fuses, PAD Dominus speakers cables, Siltech royal crown interconnects and so on???
@stevengagnon4777 replies to @ac81017: @ac81017 I was really sighting my own experience. So no ...that's not what I was saying. Wether you waisted your money is your call and of course your family that is effected through your decisions. I personally don't have much of a budget to work with so this has been my strategy through the decades. So I generally use what I have and make the best of it. Since I have much more gear than I'm currently using I can change things ( one at a time) and evaluate wether it is an improvement or not. I can say I like what I have set up now and it suits my listening habits..it took alot of tiqme...there certainly is room for improvement. So I'm planning my next small step .
@coastwalker101: "Rolling" used to be a lot more fun for the consumer when it involved matching a cartridge to the speakers and the room in a vinyl setup. A really "characterful" amplifier might need some matching or better, replacing as well. Old or cheap tube amplifiers used to have their own "character". Hopefully by now the transformers are such that there is little character to them and almost no difference between tubes. Fiddling with audio components does get one to do the basics - move the speakers around and put the fish tank pump in a sound proof box because you pay attention to what you hear whatever the perceived value of the tube rolling might be. Excellent video with a very believable result.
@EricIolo: Get a pair of Zennies (Sennheiser) HD600s - let the TA-26 warm up, and holy mother! We have a sound that is living, organic, ethereal! Bach Cello Suites come alive in a way you have not heared them before. Gut strings speak to you in a beautiful warm voice alluding to the sonics that Bach's music deserves! There is a heart beat - a kind of life within tubes! Why not experiment and test it out!! Tubaloo.
@artureff3046 replies to @EricIolo: Yep, Bayerdynamic dt880 600 Ohm, AKG K240 600 Ohm or Audio-Technica ATH-70xa 470 Ohm will do similarly. hd600 are 300 Ohm. The source must be hi-resolution (vinyl, Tidal/Qobuz, CD, SACD). OTLs don't work properly with low impedance nor planars.
@marxman00: If I sold "tubes"....... ..I would be very enthusiastic in deed !
@robertkosinski2105: I'm sure somebody said u touched the tubes with your bare hands !!!! you know, there's a level in Hell for people that do that .... :D :D
@AudioMasterclass replies to @robertkosinski2105: It’s a tube, not a car headlight bulb.
@robertkosinski2105 replies to @robertkosinski2105: @AudioMasterclass hey, here's something to think about. if I have two Fosi V3 amps and am bi-amping a set of speakers. one for high and one for low... should i use a different op amp chip in highs over lows?
@albanana683 replies to @robertkosinski2105: @AudioMasterclassYup, world of difference between a silicon glass tube that meerly gets hot, and a very hot quartz bulb. Any tutting from the tube cognoscenti should be confined to the aesthetics of a misplaced fingerprint over the manufacturers logo.
@TriAmpMyFi replies to @robertkosinski2105: @albanana683 .
Very nicely done. I had to LQQK up two words from one sentence. They'll be noted for future use. I love words because speech is a horrible way to communicate. Yes, very nicely done. A waning art indeed.
@VictoriousFightingBuddha replies to @robertkosinski2105: Audio tubes can also be damaged by skin oil. I have owned many tube amps and many came with cotton gloves to handle the tubes.