Adventures In Audio

Your turntable might be one of Amazon's most returned items. Here's what you need to know.

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Editing SECRETS revealed!:  So you're saying that with shipping out and back, these things just keep going round and round. As you have no personal experience to wrap your tone arm around the issue, you're (turn) tabling the topic for now.
Bratty Teen Girl voice for your AI popup is hella annoying.

Ean curtis:  Records are awesome especially 12 inch remixes !!!

CaptainDangeax:  Newest disc players are crap like the newest tape players. Better buy is an old refurbished equipment from the 90s

Chaotic System:  You spin me right round....

Ronin1973:  What qualifies as frequently returned? How many units must be sold before the notification is published?

DieExtravaganz:  Very interesting. I just needed to return my pro ject debut carbon evo, after just one month of usage.
There was oil leaking out of the tonearm. Very messy and, of course, very annoying. Is this normal to happen to new products? Due to german laws refund was no problem, but I am somewhat disappointed by the brand and feeling „forced“ to check out other brands.
Somehow this counter interacts with a lot of reviews that pro ject is building products for „decades to last“.

Marco Luca:  I would like to take off a curiosity that I have had for many years: with the progress made in the last years of digital and vinyl, if I had a 1800/2200 pound budget, between a Rega Planar 8 turntable and a player in this range like the Technics SL-G700M2 for example, which one would sound better for Pop and Rock music, no classical / jazz , and no loudness war (only 80/90' music) ? Does a player in this range still sound "digital" ? Does one need a higher budget to hear "analog" like a vinyl in this range ?

thexfile:  Sergeant Schultz, I know nothing!

Default UserID:  I'm not seeing the frequently returned warning on Amazon in the US for this record player.

fogbullit1000:  Unfortunately rose tinted glasses do not make vinyl sound any good

Audio Masterclass replies to fogbullit1000: I think you mean a rose-tinted ear trumpet. DM

BoxerEngineSounds:  I know nooothing.. i am from Barcelona.

bluevanman2008 replies to BoxerEngineSounds: Que?

Javier Reyes replies to BoxerEngineSounds: LOL!

Jonathan Eastwood replies to BoxerEngineSounds: It's not a rat is hamster!

Shirley Márquez Dúlcey:  My read of the comments on Amazon suggests that the real problem is inadequate packaging. A lot of customers are receiving equipment that doesn't work or doesn't work correctly, and it's likely the damage is happening during shipping. More than one customer has complained about inadequate packaging, something that is very important for something as delicate as a record player.

Amazon and/or Pro-Ject need to improve their methods of getting these things to customers.

Emmanuel Gutierrez:  Technics 1200, you will use it forever.

InvisibleInk:  Not going down the vinyl rabbit hole, ever. Sticking with CDs and digital files.

Hello Meat Robots:  When I was a kid, anything that played records was a record player. I mean, that's what it did, duh. I always thought of them that way. What does everyone call that thing they use to play CDs? An "optical turntable"? No, they're CD players, and none of them have speakers built in. Now I get a kick out of calling Crosleys "turntables" because it winds up all the right people.

Hello Meat Robots:  It sounds like a useful and objective addition to the sometimes less than helpful reviews.

Dave Chitty:  Records don't really sound that great unless you have the right equipment. Most people don't and are very dissappointed in the sound they get. Especially all the noise and crackle. Streamed music sounds clean and is very easy. The excitement wears off of vinyl very quickly unless you're into it.

Michael Beeny:  I think I would be happier if Amazon stopped selling items with poor quality control in the first place. Why upset customers at all. Plus, it must be costing them money to replace and process the retuned item, As a HiFi retailer in the 80s, I did stop selling a number of products that were unreliable. Customers would thank me for doing so.

George Nicolaidis:  I live in Greece and I recently bought a PRO-JECT X2 turntable from a local authorized retailer. The same turntable was available on line at a savings of $200 but I opted for a local dealer just to be on the safe side with regards to warranty issues. From the start this turntable was a flawed product, it had a bad bearing on the sub platter axis and produced a squeaking-scratching sound when turning.

Although the scratching sound was barely audible to the ear it was certainly there so I returned the turntable to the dealer for replacement. The local distributor refused to exchange the product on the basis that his service department could not replicate the issue. Thank God I have made a video before I sent the turntable back to the distributor so I could have a proof in hand of the reported issues. I sent the video to the distributor who refused to accept it as evidence insisting that his service cannot replicate the problem and they proceeded to send it back to me.

The returned turntable of course had the problem unresolved so I tried again to contact the local distributor to resolve the issue. They refused to exchange the turntable or even attempt to fix it once again insisting that the do not see or hear any problem. Worst of all the called me an idiot and the hung up the phone on me asking me never to contact them again.

To resolve the problem I emailed the German headquarters of PRO-JECT and about two weeks of emails coming back and forth the local representative forcibly agreed to exchange the turntable with a new one. And now the real fun starts, the new turntable I received had another problem altogether with the internal tonearm cartridge wiring with a loud buzz emanating to the amplifier every time you tried to pickup the tonearm. Not willing to go through the same rounds of poor service from the local distributor I opted to send the turntable to a technician to properly fix it for an additional cost of $75.

Mind you this wan not a cheapo turntable, it retailed for $1,450 and one would have expected a flawless product from the start performing at least at par to its price level with competing products. Instead I have received twice in a row a flawed product indicating that PRO-JECT has a real quality control issue and it is a matter of luck if the product you buy is functioning correctly or not. The certainly have lost a future customer from my side, and in retrospect I cannot stop thinking that if I have bought this product from Amazon it would not only be cheaper but I would have been able to return it with no questions asked to get my money back.

Mathew Boyce:  Actually I call them a deck

Richard Banks:  And are we to assume people don’t lie about the reason for returning an items ?

Richard Banks:  I have the entry level project primary E without phono stage and it’s astonishingly good for £150 👍

Paul Mc C:  Hmmm interesting and I have been a relatively satisfied amazon prime customer for many years but I wouldn't purchase hi-fi gear from them - I did purchase a Project X1 "turntable" from a specialist hi-fi shop last year - it was a toss up between Rega 3 and Project X1 and I wasted something finished in walnut to match my Leak Stereo 130 / CD changer and Linton's -- The project X1 fitted my budget and I am very pleased with it -- sorry off topic - I enjoy your presentations and I am not a "quote full blooded Audiophile" - I just like good quality sound for a reasonable budget - greetings from Ireland - Paul

ThewayICit:  Are you just reporting what you see? Do you have any knowledge if it is accurate?

Audio Masterclass replies to ThewayICit: It could be fake. I don't see why it should be, but I'm not taking that risk. DM

Sooth Sayer:  Is that your AI girlfriend? Can you please program her to be more sensual, more feminine and less creepy?

Phillip Banes:  Buying records today is a ridiculous waste of money. Sorry, it’s true.

Phillip Banes replies to Phillip Banes: @Tony Jedi Of The Forest

Well, we can agree on the matter of owning physical media. I own all my favorite movies on discs and encourage everyone to do the same. In my case they are all older movies and nearly all are on Blu-Ray, in glorious HD. I did however rip the files off the discs. I have all the movies stored in full quality MKV files on a huge hard drive for quick and easy access, right by the annoying menus. The drive is plugged directly into my Blu-Ray player. That also allows me to never have to handle the discs. They are carefully stored away.

Tony Jedi Of The Forest replies to Phillip Banes: @Phillip Banes like I said previously I like and listen to all mediums. I have collected vinyl records since the 1960’s so that along with radio is what I have listened to most. I carefully auditioned all of the various parts of my hifi system before buying but I go by the sound quality that I find most pleasing and not technical specifications. I currently purchase more CD’s than vinyl simply because it’s cheaper and I like to own my music rather than download but I will add I do download quite a lot of music as it gives me the chance to listen to loads of different music for very little cost. When I find a new band or piece of music that I like I will buy a hard copy, usually CD unless it’s something that I really like then it’s vinyl. I bought the Linn because it sounded superior to any other turntables that I have listened to.

Phillip Banes replies to Phillip Banes: @Tony Jedi Of The Forest

Nothing technical about that super expensive turntable company’s offerings? Are you kidding? You just by chance bought such a simple setup?

And you spent all that money to play your music on a medium that degrades with each and every play, and that will never sound as clear as digital. Sorry, it's your money and preference of course, but objectively I don’t see the value there.

Tony Jedi Of The Forest replies to Phillip Banes: @Phillip Banes nothing technical at all, I just prefer the sound but I can’t explain why. I just do.

Phillip Banes replies to Phillip Banes: @Tony Jedi Of The Forest

"not on a Linn Sondek LP12 it isn't, I just prefer the sound. I am not into the technical side of things I just use my ears."

Yet what you described sounds quite technical.

Thierry Hardy Simonelli:  The Automat A1 is basically the same TT (yes, I say TT) as the Marantz TT-42, it's made by the korean Dual plant and only has a few tweeks more than the TT-42 (footer, damped platter, phono preamp). Not a "real" Project TT.

Vadim Pekarev replies to Thierry Hardy Simonelli: Wiki says that brand rights are split on regional basis and Namsung uses Dual brand for US only. I'm ready to believe.

Thierry Hardy Simonelli replies to Thierry Hardy Simonelli: Must have been misinformed then. Dual was bought by korean company Namsung in 2002 and the two TTs share common genes that are not from Project origin.

Vadim Pekarev replies to Thierry Hardy Simonelli: Btw, recently they started new brand named "Rekkord"

Vadim Pekarev replies to Thierry Hardy Simonelli: Not really, this one is made in Germany by factory previously owned by Thorens/Dual. Factory went bankrupt and, instead of closing, was acquired by KH Lichteneger, owner of ProJect. In fact, Marantz tt42 were of German origin as well.

Audio Masterclass replies to Thierry Hardy Simonelli: This is interesting thank you, something I may follow up in future. DM

Maids and Muses:  A turntable is a table that can turn. Can either aid cake decoration, spin a vinyl record or rotate a 150+ tonne diesel locomotive depending on context... 😁.
Seriously though, a record player (turntable?) is not something I would buy from Amazon; the handling during shipping alone would worry me. I'd pick it up from a dealer who gets it straight from the importer (although that would likely imply a different price level anyway).

vdochev:  A turntable - spinny, spinny platter. Probably.

Thomas Shea:  I have no experience with this turntable (I call them turntables) but I have four Project turntables and they have been excellent and flawless.

Somebloke:  A turntable is a hifi separate. You won't get any sound out of it until it's connected to an amplifier. A record player is what Mike Oldfield called "old tin boxes". They have a crap amplifier and one or more crap speakers built in. Think of a Rega vs a Dansette.

Audio Masterclass replies to Somebloke: I'll see where this conversation goes. To me though, a turntable is the platter, the motor, and the top plate, to which you add a plinth, a tonearm, and a cartridge, like we used to do in the olden days. I might change my mind. DM

theheathster2:  A record player has integrated speakers, as per Crosley et al.

theheathster2 replies to theheathster2: @Audio Masterclass I think your definition of turntable and mine both apply. However, I’d say it’s widely accepted that a ‘record player’ must be able to play a record with no additional equipment required.

Stephen C replies to theheathster2: I'd agree. It's only a record player if it includes all you need to play records. I'm ancient (54) and remember when 'turntable' referred either to a hifi separate or the turntable component of a record player, radiogram or music centre, if you remember those terms.

Audio Masterclass replies to theheathster2: (Cut and paste from my reply to another comment) I'll see where this conversation goes. To me though, a turntable is the platter, the motor, and the top plate, to which you add a plinth, a tonearm, and a cartridge, like we used to do in the olden days. I might change my mind. DM

Steve Wille:  While this new panal appears to be a service to its customers, Amazon motivation is “bottom line”, to reduce returns and the associated expense.

Steve Wille replies to Steve Wille: Interestingly, for the record player in question, I only see the return panel warning when I visit the product page while logged in to my Amazon account. Motivations for this may be complicated.

EgoShredder replies to Steve Wille: They pass that expense on to the poor sellers, along with punishing their performance metrics though. So Amazon do not really care about the cost. It's probably more on the lines of Ebay and their constant meddling with how listings are created and handled. Every year they introduce ever more pointless policy changes, driving sellers round the twist and making the whole experience worse including for buyers in some instances.

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Thursday April 20, 2023

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David Mellor

David Mellor

David Mellor is CEO and Course Director of Audio Masterclass. David has designed courses in audio education and training since 1986 and is the publisher and principal writer of Adventures In Audio.

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