Your speakers are wrong
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Thursday May 4, 2023
David Mellor
David Mellor is CEO and Course Director of Audio Masterclass. David has designed courses in audio education and training since 1986 and is the publisher and principal writer of Adventures In Audio.
@atom7nine: Hi Sir, may I know where & what model is your Y speaker stand?
@HowToHomeLife: The overall quality of any stereo audio reproduction or playback system can be dramatically improved without changing any of the existing components through the use of the following procedure that my learned partners and I developed over many years of experimentation with the "loudspeaker room interface":
1. Extend the wires connected to your loudspeakers making them long enough to allow the speakers to be placed anywhere within the listening room. Check for proper "phasing" of the extended cables by visual and aural low frequency testing.
2. Invite two physically able friends into your listening room, and give each of them a tape measure that can be extended out in the air a minimum of six feet. Have each of them hold one of your speakers in their arms. Note: don't give them any beer yet, this will take awhile and you want them to be alert and not likely to drop your speakers!
3. While sitting in a roll-around office chair placed in approximately the middle of the listening room, have your two friends hold each of their speakers above the floor at your ear height at a four-foot distance from your head, each pointed directly at your ears and spaced six feet apart from each other to start the process.
4. Put on some program material that you are well acquainted with that contains a wide sonic spectrum and adjust the volume to your normal listing level. A remote controllable CD player will be of great benefit for repeated playback of particular program segments.
5. Listen intently to the "virtual" center image as you slide the chair left and right, and at the same time, closer to and farther from the speakers to generate the strongest sense or presence of the center image.
6. Direct your friends to maintain the correct angle to your ears while adjusting the distance between the speakers both wider and narrower and closer and farther from you and listen for the change in the width and character of the "sound field". Through this experimentation using just your ears, decide what speaker spacing and distance that produces the best sense of musical "envelopment": being in the performance!
7. While maintaining the chosen physical juxtaposition of the speakers and your ears, both your chair and your friends will all move together throughout the listening area to determine the best low frequency enhancement, "room-modes", and the best compromise of "first-boundary" reflections from the walls ceiling and floor that affect the overall sound character and stereo envelopment. Now it's time to give your friends some beer!
8. After this experimentation has been completed to your satisfaction, accurately measure where the speakers where placed and note these dimensions. Speaker stands of the proper height as determined by the position of your ears while sitting in a chosen chair, should be purchased or constructed and positioned permanently or temporarily in the room at the noted dimensions. Now it's time for you to have a beer and enjoy your much enhanced music listening experience! David Riddle
@gerrydaly5409: Hi David, I just listened to your new podcast about the N10's from the Sound on Sound website- very interesting. What desktop speaker stands did you use in that video? Thanks.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @gerrydaly5409: Depends whether you saw the K&M stands for 80 quid or my plastic crates for a fiver apiece. Both work equally well.
@gerrydaly5409 replies to @gerrydaly5409: @AudioMasterclassthanks for the information
@Gamesandstuffstudio: There is another reason to mount them horizontally. It helps get the tweeter and woofer on the same horizontal plain meaning you hear the full spectrum at you listening point. when mounted vertically the tweeters can be firing over your head
@spotsnap: HOW ARE YOU CHANGING DOF ON THE FLY???
@AudioMasterclass replies to @spotsnap: It’s a green screen. The image is my actual studio but I don’t have to bother tidying my mess. I just pull down the screen and get to work. So in this video I keyframed the blur to get the effect.
@spotsnap replies to @spotsnap: @AudioMasterclass wow. it crazy that while learning about audio i accidently learned some movie magic. 😹😹
@VOXERO-official: while you are at it you need to do a Time Alignment Ring mod too :)
@chixilupoxtli: Love them I been mixing on them for 35 years and still are the best .
@AudioMasterclass replies to @chixilupoxtli: I'll have more to say on the NS10M Studios soon. My key takeaway for now though is not so much "if your mix sounds good on these it'll sound good on anything", as is commonly said and is probably true, but they help me get to the end point of my mix much faster.
@johngerndt7188: I hope that your lessons in the process of recording and, in the end, listening are effective. You speak in "common sense" terms. You are helping to make common sense, more common.
@yukikoishiharao4885: mine is vertical like yours because i am laid down on my side when i listen. i only need 1.
@yl9154: And that is an Audio demonstration of the Kruger-Dunning effect. :-) Well done Audio Masterclass!
@slyfoxx2973: This guy DOES look like an Idle/McCartney hybrid. (...thinks back to Life of Brian where it was decided that Idle would be allowed to have babies if he....! Oh my!) Anyway I'm sure my speakers are wrong too! Some day here eh?
@bakeone4406: Quite a few speakers (but not all) are reputed to perform their best when the wall behind them is at least 3' away from the cabinet. Not sure if our humble narrator has tried moving these speakers away from the wall. I apologize for skipping that part if it was covered in the video. The logic employed to justify using middle of the road or mediocre speakers makes sense for a producer or recording engineer who aims to make a recording that can be enjoyed on a less than great system. Again maybe I'm missing something, but if you want the most lifelike and nuanced listening experience you can get, it seems like you might be missing out by not getting really good speakers. I guess personal preferences are what count the most. Why spend a ton of money on speakers if you like making videos about audio more than you like listening to music?
@AudioMasterclass replies to @bakeone4406: Thank you for reminding me of something I've known for fifty years. Yes it would be lovely to move my speakers away from the wall. If someone would like to buy me a new house in which I could have enough space in my spare room I will surely do that. P.S. Who said I was humble?
@MrSlipstreem: Everyone's speakers are wrong, and so are the rooms they're listening to them in. I chose the relatively cheap way out by just positioning the speakers correctly then letting Audyssey MultEQ XT on a Denon AVR iron out the lumps. Is it perfect? Absolutely not! Is it a massive improvement? Absolutely yes!
@martyjewell5683: I always thought that Yamaha's NS speaker series was well reviewed and considered very good sound. As Yamaha receivers in the 1970's/80's had a "clinical" (dry?) sound I guess they wanted similar results in their speakers. Personally, I agree with Yamaha and prefer amps with that sound. I've found my Hitachi SR-804 (1979) has that sound. Clinical or accurate and very desirable to me. At least thru my Ohm model L and H loudspeakers.
@Wilmer778: Hi, great video! :D I'm here because tomorrow, my brother's gonna drop off some Yamaha NS-144 speakers. Have you ever heard of them and if so, are they somewhat comparable to the NS-10 speakers/monitors? Just curious! I hope I've made the right decision anyway. I've always worked with KRK Rokit 5's and even though they're extremely accurate panning-wise (I just have to touch my paanning knob and I can hear the sound shift a little bit in the stereo field), they've always sounded really dull to me. I wanna be able to hear some upper frequencies, so again: I hope the NS-144's are worth it. I can barely find any any info on them. :)
@AudioMasterclass replies to @Wilmer778: I haven’t heard the 144s. The Rokit 5 however is excellent considering the size, price, and reflex design. Let us know how you get on with the 144.
@VintageGearMan: Those are fantastic monitors once you get used to mixing on them. They have been industry standard studio monitors forever.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @VintageGearMan: Frequency response isn’t the best but I love the detail.
@VintageGearMan replies to @VintageGearMan: @AudioMasterclass True.
@VintageGearMan replies to @VintageGearMan: @AudioMasterclass It also took me awhile to compensate for low freqs on those things but once I got a handle on it all worked out.
@JacksonCairn: I invented my own speakers. I placed a JPW monitor on top of a Kef Coda. Individually they are different but lacking, together they are pretty decent.
@emiel333: Great video. About monitors that have waveguides for the tweeters, many companies design their monitors to turn the tweeter 90 degrees so you can use them horizontally instead of vertically (ADAM Audio for example, not all models!!) without compromising the sound dispersion. About near field monitors in general, they are for monitoring at close proximity (1 meter or less). A small benefit of this concept is that the room acoustics are less noticeable because the sound only has to travel a distance of 1 meter at maximum to reach your ears. I don’t say that room isolation and treatment is unnecessary, it will benefit the sound for the better. It’s a sort of hack for people that don’t have a proper treated studio environment/room.
@voiceofjeff: I really enjoyed your commentary, and I agree with you. I have developed the notion that I want my speakers to sound the same way the orchestra sounds if I was sitting in front of the orchestra live. I don't want enhanced lo or high end, I don't want any coloration. I just want the speakers to be flat and pure and give the same sound that I'd hear if I was sitting directly in front of the performers. Is that wrong?
There are discussions about having the tweeters farthest in toward center, and the woofers toward the outside... but I'm not sure I have an opinion about that. Nor do I have an opinion about vertical or horizontal positioning. I just want my monitors (I use Yamaha HS5 monitors) to sound clean and accurate. I do voice over from a home studio, and I want my narrations to be crisp and clear, but not overdone. I think having accurate speakers is a big part of that.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @voiceofjeff: Tweeters-in or tweeters-out has arguments either way. A future video perhaps.
@Pedozzi: I don't have speakers so you are wrong
@DenisPerron: My speakers are also installed horizontally. And I also used a pink noise to adjust my system using a Real time analyzer and a graphic equalizer to correct the deficiencies in my system as well as the acoustics of my room. It makes a big difference. My amplifier is an Electrocompaniet from the 80s.
@ChrisBessy: j'ai des ns10 chez moi et ils sont bons pour vérifier les médiums, mais dire que ça sonne bien partout est faux. J'ai eu des mixages sur mes RP5 qui sont pas équilibré, avec trop peu de médiums et beaucoup trop d'aigues, qui sonnent très bien sur les ns10. C'était peut-être valable dans les années 80 et 90, mais plus aujourd'hui. Les ns10 peuvent aider, mais je ne leur fait pas entièrement confiance.....
@AudioMasterclass replies to @ChrisBessy: Translation from Google for comment readers... "I have ns10s at home and they are good for checking mids, but saying it sounds good everywhere is wrong. I've had mixes on my RP5s that are unbalanced, with too little midrange and too much treble, which sound very good on the ns10. This may have been true in the 80s and 90s, but not anymore. The ns10s can help, but I don't fully trust them....."
@JonJGoldberg: ...Thank you for this interesting review - I'd like to add that god/evolution made it so you can tell left from right with great procision > placing an ear on each side of your head - Not many creatures with other arrangements > but when they do have other arrangements > accuracy on earth favors left/right over up/down - The more recent strategies using line arrays & height for lagre space sound seem to exploit this actuality > & might be a better answer as to why you prefer your speakers drivers arranged vertically - I continue to enjoy your reviews more as I view more - I also don't agree with most of them - I would for example love to chat with you about cables -
@AudioMasterclass replies to @JonJGoldberg: The line array configuration is for controlling dispersion. A wide sound source will have less dispersion, a narrow sound source more. So the line array spreads sound over the width of the audience while controlling dispersion vertically.
@JonJGoldberg replies to @JonJGoldberg: @AudioMasterclass ...thanks for the caloire burning (thought provking) reply ! - For me its so much easier to seperate the individual drivers in horizontal arranged driver lay-outs - The action or process of dispersion is to spread out > as seeds rely on birds > then a vertical line array would be counter intuitive - However sound reproduction is simply complicated (pun intended) > & adding driver intergration to our talk > our ears seem designed to accurately > especially in front of us > place sound left/right 'now' - That is one of the many reasons it is so easy for the soundstage to collapse when adding a third 'centered' speaker - It actually provides zero additional information (if not a sub) > more likely it will be the source of a great deal of added tamber/timing/phaseing/placement interaction distortions & at best further narrow the sweet spot > or worse > smear & mono-ize the wider/dispersed sound stage > even if the L/C/R speaker are identical - I reason that this would be true for drivers arranged horizontaly > this has been my experience with Focal Solo/Duo 6Be & Adam Audio S3H/V monitors - Until recently > adding BareFoot MM45s - There must be digital cross overs doing magic with it's two midrange drivers > but to me they still sound so much better to me vertical > making the two mids horizontally oriented ?! - SMH - Please make it a great day ! > I'd love to talk more -
@tedtedsen269: i have even worse speakers hs7 and a hs8 subwoofer to my genos 2 keyboard, my advice is soon as you have bought something stop reading test on internet or youtube they don’t use their equipment to listen to your music - they use your music to listen to their equipment
@mariokrizan1400: 👌👌 As it is, if you listen to the final mix well on an NS10, it will turn out well everywhere, especially if the product is for radio or television stations.
Years ago, almost all the studios where I have recorded had these speakers and they were placed both horizontally and vertically.
Many studios had another couple of boxes to listen to after the product was finished. Greetings.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @mariokrizan1400: This is a commonly-held opinion. It's a shame they are no longer made.
@JaviBello: I've ben using my original 1978 Yamaha NS10s as main monitor for maybe 10 years now. I used them on 4 or 5 places since I bought them, and half of the time I've used them vertical, as they're supposed to be. The other half of the time(and right now) I'm using them horizontally. Never been able to hear a difference in response or performance. In other monitors I had with horns, the difference was obvious instantly when you flip them. People saying that the orientation is wrong, clearly doesn't know what they're talking about, and of course never used their ears(or had a pair of NS10s hahaha)
@gersonsalinas7960: I mount my speakers facing away from me so i dont have to worry about the awful technicalities of correct audio 👍
@AudioMasterclass replies to @gersonsalinas7960: You jest, but when I want background audio, I use my Pure Evoke 3 DAB radio - https://www.google.com/search?q=pure+evoke+3&tbm=isch - At least it's stereo.
@Chris-St-DE: I have one horizontally and one vertically. Sounds good.
@MarkT-v7f: I stick with my monitors because I have used them for years and know them through and through!
@legtrax2021: Ideally, the tweeters should be at ear level for your listening position. Pick the most suitable mount orientation and angle using isolation to create triangle between ears and tweeters. That should get you close to the studio's listening position ie the track will sound closest to how it was intended.
@Weissman111: Had my Tannoy 605 Mk 1s for nealry 30 years and they still sound great.
@fernandofonseca3354: In how many levels are transmission line speakers so wrong? I'd love to hear your 2p on that subject. Cheers!
@ericquasney8832: You aint guy. He got car wreck
Back in the day. 🙈🙉🙊
@ericquasney8832: Tuned room with strings subject
At point where meet. Single point. You have 2 ears. 🙉
@Lous_taunau: Wise man, wise words.
@MrFunballs: MY very first monitors were the NS10"s I loved them, I gave them to my brother then my nephew poked a hole in the cone. very sad!!
@soundssimple1: NS10 in whatever flavour with or without the tweeter covered with tissue paper, if good enough for Bob Clearmountain then should be good enough for the rest of us as a reference. Great video as always.
@Ab20222: I enjoy your videos very much. What’s your opinion about coaxial drivers?
@AudioMasterclass replies to @Ab20222: Possibly it might raise a flurry but I might say they should all be this way. But a proper HF driver not a whizzer cone. DM
@Ab20222 replies to @Ab20222: @AudioMasterclass Have you ever built one? Would you like to make a video about it comparing with your other builds?
@djtbs1: You are just... awesome. Enjoy your content for it's analytical side, humor, and education points. Your video where you show the DAW noise floor doesn't exist was excellent as well.
@thePunkRockMix: I have it placed the same as you did - since 15 years - never got a problem :)
@Carl-bd1rf: I love how people think your system should sound and be set up, not!!!
The only person my system needs to make happy is me.
@ashneel: You are Paul McCartney.. nice try
@leejackson3389: You are funny!!! 😂
@leejackson3389: Oh by the way I love detailing my sound as well Love it love it love it using my Yamaha studio monitors! 😂
@leejackson3389: My dear sir listen to whatever you want to listen to on whatever speaker you want to listen to it on who are these people I own some of Yamaha studio monitors myself I enjoy my music daily! Enjoy your life who cares what other people think... really!!!
@mrboat580: I listen to my old budget JBL monitors vertical. They even made it to where you could twist the JBL logo 90 degrees in which to accommodate this. I have 9 pairs of speakers that I use in rotation, or set up in multiple systems in my home at times, all of which are wrong. Been listening near field for 50+ years by now, starting with the suitcase Victrola arranged on the floor when I was a lad, with 45s scattered allover the rug. That close-up listening habit followed me throughout life, even when the equipment became much larger.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @mrboat580: I certainly like the detail I hear when listening close-to. DM
@machavez00: My Bose 301 IIs are designed to bounce off the walls. It’s in their name. http://products.bose.com/pdf/customer_service/owners/301ii_guide.pdf
@surroundrive: Yes, but you can't deny being Pat Condell's doppelganger
@wojciechczupta: ATC studio monitors have two places to mount high freq driver, so that it remains above mid range regardless of vertical or horizontal placement. I guess they may sound different to some extent or maybe it is to keep left and right drivers more separated from each other in near field?
@AudioMasterclass replies to @wojciechczupta: If the midrange and tweeter are mounted horizontally then small side to side movements of the head will affect the sound. If vertically, then up and down movements. For most purposes I believe vertical is best, although there's no real solution other than dual concentric. DM
@petertimp5416: Haha…don’t forget baffle reflection for the tweeter.😊
@eggshellskullrule7971: My speakers are not wrongly positioned. They're JBL 4320. With tube or SS amps., placed on the floor with the treble lenses facing upwards, they sound good with any sources and let me hear all the nuances in a recording, even on bad recordings.
@kevinharrison2169: Good evening Mr Mellor. I am blessed with a pair of stacked Quad ESLs (aka ESL 57s.) A friend once told me that the bass response on these was totally crap. I know these speakers have their limitations, but the frequency response from the lower mid-range to the mid high range on these speakers is phenomenal. And that is what I want to hear. Thumping bass has its place, but not in my lounge. I have suspended wooden floors, and pressed steel ceilings and this is definitely not an "audiofoolery good room." But I don't care, because I am hearing the music the way I prefer it. The vocal reproduction is quite incredible albeit female, male, choral pieces et al. Listening to classical music is quite sublime on these speakers, as well as jazz, blues, folk and so on. The lovely deep bass and trilling highs of a pipe organ I will go and listen to in a cathedral, church, auditorium or similar location. Plus, and this is the most important point, I do not have "golden ears" anymore - I have been blighted with permanent tinnitus since 2001. However, I still enjoy my music - from LPs (many of the older ones are not available in a digital format,) CDs and SACDs. I have not had the opportunity to move to high quality streaming.
In closing - I really enjoy the way you cut to the chase and call the BS exactly what it is. I do have some slightly more expensive speaker cables in my system than just normal types, but that is because of the change between my Bedini amp and the speakers. The Quads do present a rather different load (capacitive) than normal speakers do, but my cables are no more than studio level Mogami 3082 co-axial which are roughly $5 per metre, and I have a total of 2 x 4m per channel. People will say this is unnecasary but I will refer them to this article (http://sound-au.com/cablewhitepaper.htm) that explains the reasons for using this cable with the ESLs.
Thank you for always interesting topics. All the best from a chilly South Africa. My speakers are wonderful. Wrong for most but good for me.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @kevinharrison2169: I used to yearn to have stacked Quads but of course I couldn't afford them. Now I could, but I realise how much space is needed to get them to sound at their best. I guess I'll have to stick with my B&Ws. DM
@kevinharrison2169 replies to @kevinharrison2169: @AudioMasterclass Indeed space is needed, and my lounge is fortunately just large enough for them. I used the word "blessed" because my best audio/music friend gave me these in 1997 at the then giveaway price of £630.
@Mitsch76: For many years I used a pair of Canton Quinto510 Loudspeakers....and they did the job very well. Combined with my AKG K240 Studio headphones I think I was pretty good prepared to mix and record audio. I used my monitors so long and so intensive that I imediately identified any mistake in mix or recording. I knew exactly what I should be hearing.
Since 3 years I changed to a pair of Yamaha HS 7 studio monitors and still I don't feel as secure and confident as I did on my (very old) Cantons. I guess it has to be some more years of matching my ears to the new monitors..... To conclude: I think you just need to KNOW WHAT YOU HEAR. And be able to make the right decisions from that knowledge.
Great video, as always! Thank you very much!
@atmosformusic: I use my (upright) NS10s (hooked up to an old Alesis amp) for two reasons: in mono for balancing (theyre ruthless when balance is wrong or when wide sounds are not in phase), and to check if my bass is still there on smaller speakers (if not, I usually add a bit of distortion to bass in parallel to bring it up on smaller speakersets). Double checking on NS10's has saved me numerous times
@OrangeMicMusic: Another brilliant video :)
Misunderstanding tends to breed misinformation, which is often disseminated by well-meaning amateurs: those whose knowledge of a subject is sketchy are always prey to the intuitively plausible but utterly wrong explanation for one phenomenon or another.
You can place it however you want. Why?
Because NS10 began its life as a domestic hi-fi speaker in '78, but it was relatively poorly received and quickly faded towards obscurity.
Later on, in the mid '80's after few mixing engineers used it, Yamaha decided to re-brand it 'NS10M Studio'.
That's it. Nothing "magic". Use it, do mixes and be happy🙂
@michallasan3695: You sound quite smart for a guy who does not even adhere to instructions of the manufacturer regarding how to place the monitors - min distance from the wall.
@marceloarenas5486: hahahahaha..> Eric Idle's lost brother in deed!!!
@timmy707707: NS 10s were originally designed as an inexpensive bookshelf speaker. I bought a pair in 1979 for the backyard...I think I paid $125 for them if that. I was just starting to experiment with recording and had a set of Auratone C5 sound cubes given to me by my uncle who was an engineer at a local radio station....still have them. The Yamahas sounded like crud so they stayed out in the yard until their demise. Sometime around 1984 I was in Wally Heider's in SF and on the desk was a pair of them....I was shocked. We did our tracks and then I asked the engineer about them and he gave me the lowdown. Now my kid is an engineer...he has a pair....they still sound lackluster to me. But hey that's just me I guess.....
@FerdHagn: Detailed and neutral is my preference. I don't like to listen to speakers, I like to listen to the recording
@nate_d376: I thought you WERE Paul McCartney.
@1974UTuber: Just because you mentioned my comment about looking like Paul McCartney I will subscribe.
That and the great content.
Its OK. Your secret is safe with us Paul 😂
@sbbinahee: The real Paul Mc Cartney😂!❤ you subconsciously perhaps, did a mc Cartney eyebrow gesture as you said 'Paul mc Cartney' 😂 Anyhow serioisly your videos are very informative educational and entertaining!
@AudioGuyBrian: I have a unique situation where my speakers are sitting directly on a tile floor upside down with the super tweeters and tweeters in my 4-way Sansui speakers are only inches from the floor. I had to do this because I have a 150" pulldown theater screen and it blocks the speakers except for the bottom 8" which is unobstructed. So they still sound good during movies as the fronts, I have compensated for the strange layout with my 30 band EQ's so I get great sound even with screen down.
@bilguana11: You are cocky.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @bilguana11: I would say realistic and full of facts. DM
@bilguana11 replies to @bilguana11: @AudioMasterclass LOL!
@Theupgradeguy: I JUST got through telling a friend about your channel and how you could have been separated at birth from either Paul McCartney or Eric Idle. LOL! Love your channel. Very informative.
@Tijgerhaai_MTB: I used to work at a local radio station. For that I once had a workshop making jingles at the NOB. working in the studios of the public broadcaster. Equipment that makes you salivate as a local radio station technician. Made super cool jingles, you know how those things sound. But the tip of the NOB technician was that you can make a very nice final mix on this equipment. But if you can't follow it on a transistor radio, it makes no sense. So a speaker from an old cheap radio was literally connected to the mono bus. "If it sounds good on that, and can be followed, it's good"
@rodericogarcia: Having worked myself with a couple of NS10, I wouldn´t overlook the problem with frequency response as if it was a minor issue. Those dips and bumps in the highs may become a challenge when looking for a tonal balance. It´s not only a question of having the mix sounding "good" in the yamahas, it´s also about mixin while you are aware of which frequencies are boosted by this response, and which are atennuated. A complete mess of perception, in my opinion. I never got to feel comfortable with these.
I have enjoyed some of the latest Genelec models, and my final choice for mixing has been Neumann KH120 + Kh750dsp- Measuring my mixing room and getting an "almost flat" response, at least in terms of tonal balance perception, adding an extended bass response down to 16Hz, finally got me having my mixes translate in many other places with much less struggle.
The Neumanns offer a rather boring sound when you use them simply for listening to other music, but are surprisingly revealing in showing hidden details in records I had listened to a thousand times. The kind of tool that helps you to take decisions and achieve your goal sooner, and more confident.
@eddents: Interesting. Speakers that reveal warts and all. Better to mix on speakers that behave like an old, well established relationship, versus a brand new one, where everything is presented as fresh and absolutely perfect, with no loss of showroom shine.
@miks564: ...from a particular bass sensitive listener, bass is part of the details and you're missing part of them. 😊 (my main system doesn't have a subwoofer, just to discard the boom boom box listener you might believe I could be). ...and the good thing about it, is that we, teenagers from times long gone, can still hear and feel them at our age. 😊
But I'm pulling your leg. I appreciate your videos and although I dislike hearing music from 'in your face' sound kits, I'm perfectly ok with those who prefer it.
@SingularityMedia: Damn those NS10 grot boxes. I`m glad they are no longer a standard.
That being said, your ears get used to what they get used to, so I`m not going to yuck your yum. Many a solid mix has been done with NS10`s as part of the process.
@kampfire: NS10's are the most critical speakers in my experience and was pleasantly surprised to hear him say what I learned 20+ years ago: If you can make your mix sound good on NS10's, then your mix will sound good on anything. This is why you'll notice most major recording studios had a pair of NS10's in them...
@pauldavies6037 replies to @kampfire: it creates a "standard " sound but not the best available
@rabarebra replies to @kampfire: "If you can make your mix sound good on NS10's, then your mix will sound good on anything"
This is a myth created just because they were kind of standard in studios. It is the skills of the person that matters, not the speakers. Room and environment is the most critical, then the skills....
@ShabbyBroom replies to @kampfire: @rabarebra Hi, you seem to be misunderstanding my remark. NS10's are not just popular, they are critical in the sense that instead of pumping your mix through large JBLs, portable boom boxes, and running outside to your car to check your mix, if you get NS10's to sound good (obviously using your skills/ear because it's not easy), there's not much need to check the other monitors.
@rabarebra replies to @kampfire: @ShabbyBroom I am not a newbie but a engineer. Where did I mention any use of large speakers only? NS10's are not critical to use. There are a bunch of speakers on the market you can use along with larger speakers to check your mixes.
Cheers from a Mastering engineer whom like to be anonymous.
@VintageGearMan replies to @kampfire: Industry standard forever! However, I have a pair EV's that never let me down. Anything I threw at them sounded great on any gear. That blew me away to. I even had a seasoned engineer listen to them and he was very impressed also.
@TheKillogicEffect: Sounds just like what someone who is related tp Paul McCartney would say 😜
@laika25: Is that your wife on back (poster)? Haha 😉
@AudioMasterclass replies to @laika25: That's Betty, my technical assistant. She appears in many of my videos. DM
@donaldbundy3499: I prefer reference monitors to be positioned or mounted vertically like yours. That puts the time alignment at the speaker's crossover point to be more in alignment. No I do not raise my wiring off the floor.
@headfirstonly: My Focals havs passive radiators on the side, so I'm stuck with vertical. But you've got me wondering whether there's money to be made in making bespoke angled stands for the Yamahas to put the tweeter directly above the main driver...
@leekumiega9268: If you don't like the sound changing when you move your head then you need to give a listen to Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers. They do not have a sweet spot they have what the manufacturer calls a sweet sweep that encompasses the entire room due to their unique design. They are semi-omnidirectional and break all the rules , they like reflective surfaces and work best only 12-18 inches from the wall. They provide a deep and wide sound field with reach out and touch it realism. Watch Z reviews Ohm Walsh "best speaker ever".
@AudioMasterclass replies to @leekumiega9268: I guess semi-omnidirectional means a wider spread of sound, which would bring the far field closer. The problem is in the near field and if there isn't much of a near field then there won't be much of a problem. DM
@leekumiega9268 replies to @leekumiega9268: @AudioMasterclass Near field or anywhere in the room they sound great , Zeos does the best review of these speakers and explains how they do their magic. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_8xUDYBgZQ&t=11s
@marcusorme261: …on so many levels 😁
@AudioMasterclass replies to @marcusorme261: One level I missed out is that in the thumbnail for this video it looks as though the speakers are much lower than my ears. It's a green screen shot I made to save me having to tidy my desk every time and clearly the perspective could be better. But I'll probably leave it as it is if and when I use it in future, see how many people notice. DM
@marcusorme261 replies to @marcusorme261: @AudioMasterclass Haha, I hadn’t noticed tbh 😁 Great channel btw, have only recently discovered but have been binge watching many of the videos lately. Thank you for creating 😊
@alanperry1846: Good for you ,it is amazing how all these people are experts and don't have their own speaker companies.
@fedenovo1: There’s a hot chick’s ghost behind you.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @fedenovo1: That's Betty, my technical assistant. DM
@Ammahuman: I orient my speaker's so my neighbor's can hear them,they sound great👍
@ahareally: I guess this clears up my confusion about a setup I recently saw in a video (by Andrew Masters) of Tim Pierce's home studio, where he has his Adam Audio S3a monitors placed vertically. Besides the manual mentioning they are supposed to be placed horizontally due to the position of the "woofer-midrange units" - I assume - it's not THAT big of a deal (at least how he uses them).
Great channel - superb content!
Cheers :)
@AudioMasterclass replies to @ahareally: I don't know of any speakers that look more intentionally horizontal but if there was any reason to mount them vertically I'd certainly give it a try. DM
@MobiusMinded: Speakers are best placed, such that the tweeter is as close to ear level as possible.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @MobiusMinded: This is correct, except that the best place might be a little higher depending on the speaker. My speakers in the thumbnail look a lot lower than they actually are, which is with the tweeters at ear level. DM
@MobiusMinded replies to @MobiusMinded: @AudioMasterclass i worked on hundreds of major label album mix projects. Very often we’d have up to three pairs of near fields and the mains. Positioning the near fields was an art and woe to any night tech or assistant who broke the tape (often used to define edges, etc., as a memory aid.) it was a big detail, the precise location and orientation.
@MobiusMinded: The NS10 had a subwoofer one could purchase. Very few people know this. Mixer/Producer/Engineer JJP (Jack Joseph Puig) had one under his console that was dialed in. Thus, when folks heard mixes in his room they had this edge of a full range. I bought one…. It absolutely filled out the low end like it should.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @MobiusMinded: This is true. They occasionally come up on eBay for a price that is a lot lower than it will be when word gets out. DM
@MobiusMinded replies to @MobiusMinded: @AudioMasterclass i sold mine years ago.
@nicolaimadsen7036: Speakers, on which everything sounds bad. Isnt that somekind of quality indicator? Really. You have cheap BT speakers today, that "somehow" are able to play every pop top track and be rich in sound AND bass. Its clever engineering OR the audio master is designed to cheap 10 euro speakers = its crap. We have a portable Sony SRS-X3 (i believe) in the kitchen, and Im amazed how that tiny speaker, when placed the right spot, can play this loud, this clearly and with that much bass for its size!
Got 2x DALI Opticon 6 myself mixed with a surround setuo for the living room, and while they are able to sound absolute phenomenal. They can however, also sound like utter shit. Like, streaming movies with a low bitrate audiotrack, bad masters on ex TIDAL... a good master however, and it sounds like an entirely different system.
@incargeek: KEF Concertos here…sitting vertically, directly on the floor :0
@AudioMasterclass replies to @incargeek: Not bad. I'd have desired them myself back in the day. DM
@last1059: Would be interested to know your opinion of coaxial loudspeakers, e.g. the Tannoy VX series in the light of your comments on tweeter v. woofer alignment. I'd have thought it a no-brainer in favor of coaxial but there must be some drawback other than greater manufacturing cost.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @last1059: I don't know why they're not more of a thing. It's important to remember that there should be two drivers, not just a passive 'whizzer cone' in the centre which may offer some benefit but is not the same as a true dual concentric. DM
@last1059 replies to @last1059: @AudioMasterclass Yes, I'm talking about true dual concentrics although I have seen some speakers which carry a tweeter on a bridge mounted in front of and aligned with the cone's coil which may offer some advantages.
@PapaNicksMusic: I’ve recently come across your videos (and subscribed!), and I am heartened by your willingness and ability to examine the fine details of sound reproduction while still reminding us that all of this—ALL of this—is subjective. If I mount my studio monitors in the attic pointing down through air vents into my studio because I like the way it sounds, that is good enough. If I like the way it sounds, it’s good. If I don’t, it’s bad. Far too many people throw around the word “objectively” in these discussions. You don’t, and I love that.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @PapaNicksMusic: Your comment reminds me of years ago when I saw someone's reasonably decent speakers placed tightly into the corners of their room. All wrong in theory as they excite more standing waves. Except it sounded really good, the main point being that you could be anywhere in the room and it sounded good, rather than just one 'sweet spot' listening position. I wouldn't say this is good for monitoring, but for enjoying music it's an option. DM
@alvarosundfeld: I thought I was the only one to think you look like Paul McCartney and Eric Idle 😅
@UCS0608: I agree with the fact that you should have speakers that you can use to hear if your mix sounds ok on "any" speaker, but I absolutely want to have a real good set of speakers to check the soundbalance of the mix. So, not too much low, mids or highs etc. However, the levels (with a little focussing on vocals) I usually decide on speakers like this, on a rather low volume, because almost every mix sounds good on high volume... 😏
But I really think there are good alternatives for the, imho, way too expensive (occasion) Yamaha's. I used to have them, but sold them a long time ago, for a good price. Nowadays I use a set of Adam ANF10s and they are more than ok and you can find them used for a nice price.
I still have two mid 70s Auratones somewhereShould start using them again. 😄
Btw, I love your videos! 👍
@Wyliebaum: Mastering engineers can spot an Y-NS10 mix easily as they are often wooly sounding due to the speakers being so bright...mixing engineers over compensate for the brightness and when you get the mix home it's muffled. too many studio engineers don't get around to hearing music on normal home speakers...too busy working on music in the studio. What sounds great at the studio sounds shit at home. Mastering engineers have to try to save the day.
@markfischer3626: Your speakers, in fact your entire sound system is right or wrong depending on what your goals are and how well the system meets them.
If the goal is to achieve highly marketable recordings then sales volume could be your measure.
If your goal is to simply enjoy recordings then only you are the judge.
If your goal is high fidelity to live music then depending on your experience and memory that could be well beyond the current state of the art.
@vladdyvansavage8760: fascinating stuff, been using Yamaha HS5 vertically for couple of years and they're clean and detailed sounding but very fatiguing to listen to so got Pioneer Andy James bookshelf speakers and tried mixing on them with varying results still gotta check my song mixes often on open headphones like DT990, Shp9500 and on the ole Iphone, and since i'm in Oz we do things upside down here, and break the audio recording rules.
@REUS_CLOTHING replies to @vladdyvansavage8760: Because its not a NS10
@TWEAKER01: Time alignment (tweeters & woofers to your ears) is a HUGE factor to hearing detail objectively, as you alluded to towards the end. And the more drivers in a speaker cabinet, the more difficult that can be. We're subconsciously actually more sensitive to phase response than to pitch.
@ottonormalverbrauch3794 replies to @TWEAKER01: We are sensitive to phase differences left and right for evolutuonary reasons ( where does the lion come from?), vertically not so much as it will only result in a slightly different frequency response.
@allanmoorhead9492: If speakers have their own "flattering" or "pleasant" sound, they aren't accurately reproducing the original signal. Shouldn't studio monitor speakers be accurate? Also, if you adjust a mix to sound good on poor speakers, isn't that compensating in a way which will actually sound bad on accurate speakers?
@AudioMasterclass replies to @allanmoorhead9492: This is my opinion. Although the frequency response of the NS-10M Studio isn't great, the sound is very detailed. For myself, I prefer a detailed sound and for that I'm prepared to tolerate the frequency response. Of course, one should also listen on other speakers, high-quality headphones, and checking on earbuds is also good seeing is that is how many people consume their audio. DM
@busseyricardo: Agree
@HomeTheatre101: I honestly enjoy watching your videos and listening to your take.
@davidmorgen4558: L like yammis! There smaller models are quite Good given the reason there being used..I rarely see them used any more.ill keep looking!!
@carlsitler9071: I loved listening to my mom's albums in the '70s and she had a wide ranging taste in music. She had Led Zepplin next to Arlow Guthrie... Nate King Cole... Johnny Cash... Fifth Dimension... Donavan, etc. She had an all in one consul (speakers, turn table, 8-track, radio).
@alexnet8943: Если коротко: "Вам не нравится Лонг Джон? Попробуйте Бурбон !"
@AudioMasterclass replies to @alexnet8943: Google translates this as "In short: "You don't like Long John? Try Bourbon!" DM