VIDEO: How much do you want to add real tube magic to your DAW? (Features Freqtube FT-1)
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Tuesday April 18, 2023
David Mellor
David Mellor is CEO and Course Director of Audio Masterclass. David has designed courses in audio education and training since 1986 and is the publisher and principal writer of Adventures In Audio.
In my opinion, the audiophile community's focus on the playback device (vinyl vs digital) is largely uninteresting and unimportant. The real sound comes from the recording and mixing process.
What I think would be interesting is a thoughtful comparison of music made purely with analog gear vs. music mixed and mastered entirely in the box. If you think digital sounds just as good (or better), then provide a playlist of great sounding songs that used no analog gear. --- I find this is a hard comparison to do because it's not evident which gear was used in which modern song, and also due to the prevalence of tuning and quantizing, which dramatically change the impact of the music.
@frankgeeraerts6243: THIS VIDEO IS A REAL GEM...........
@angelsanchez4109: Nice , but sadly there are tubes and tubes, and you just tubbify with a kind of ¨crappy¨ tube , try that with a DHT thoriated-tungsten, and a filament current virtual modulator and then we will be talking the same :). can you just put any tube on this machine ? well , no .. so .... hummm.. :). kinda narrow view at the tubes "sound¨, anyway keep your videos coming .. great channel
@warrenmurchie6599: Oh look, it's Mr. Pompous fool again. Because someone prefers quality old technology doesn't make them wrong. Just as you prefer cheap modern mass produced and made in China rubbish doesn't make you right.
@ralfulrich6254: Nostalgia is a form of depression
@AudioMasterclass replies to @ralfulrich6254: Nostalgia is where the past gets its 15 minutes of fame. DM
@ralfulrich6254 replies to @ralfulrich6254: @@AudioMasterclass agree! I like your view on old stuff and that you don't glorify it. Many people get stuck in the past because they have trouble to adopt new things or going through a difficult time.
@tonyfrench1081: So many words. What is he trying to say ?
@spectrelayer: In an interview with Bob Carver - he spoke about the way the output stage of a tube amplifier actually interacts with the listening environment. Carver explained that the audio output transformer couples with the voice coils in the loudspeakers & makes them behave like microphones. This feedback interacts with the tube & affects the output making your tube amp aware of the acoustics of your listening room & how they interact with your speakers in a way that a low impedance solid state design will not. I can understand how this effect might be a net positive under some circumstances. I can also see where it could become a negative. Like you - I'd rather have the sound neutral & do all of the processing intentionally myself. About Carver: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bob+carver+tube+amps
@lenimbery7038: I have an old radio chassis in my studio with several large tubes which I have on a shelf beside my monitor....I leave it on because they look beautiful glowing in the subdued lighting I have in the room and as for warmth, you can hold your hand near it and feel the heat!....It's not connected to anything else yet everyone who visits my studio swear about how much they love the warm tube sound that I get!
@DinoDiniProductions: The question is whether we treat music production as an art form, where synchronicity can occur from the seemingly random variables beyond our control and we go with the flow that leads us to something special... Or we work in an utterly clinical environment where everything is predictable, controlled, measured and validated... And where any deviation in this clinical environment will certainly sound like an error.
Where does soul come from anyway? I'll tell you a secret. It knocks on your door. It comes to you. And if, when it does, the first thing you do is whip out you tape measure to see if it measures up, that wonderful spark of creativity will run away. We all get what we deserve.
@genericusername5909: I like how tubes work - it gives me intangible satisfaction, even if I’m not a staunch defender of adding harmonics
@AudioMasterclass replies to @genericusername5909: I can get that. Tubes show off what they do, like a steam locomotive. I don't hear many railway enthusiasts talking about the romance of diesel. DM
@mikei2768: As much we love to hold on to things tubes will be like Kodak Film…..eventually replaced by digital
@AudioMasterclass replies to @mikei2768: You may be right, but seeing as the transistor was invented in 1947 it's taking an awfully long time. DM
@spandel100 replies to @mikei2768: For something that adds such richness and soul to music,I cannot see that happening anytime soon.That would be a sad day.
@MichaelLenz1: Wrong statements. We like how tubes distort signal. Since valves/tubes are still ised today, they’re not outdated. And audio is not about transmitting digital signals, so nobody cares how precise amplification-reproduction of soundits with valves/tubes is. It’s all about timbre and how sound gets colored .
@NamelessSmile replies to @MichaelLenz1: Not in the hifi world...
@MichaelLenz1 replies to @MichaelLenz1: @@NamelessSmile what can be more hi-fi than recording studio?
@NamelessSmile replies to @MichaelLenz1: @@MichaelLenz1 A lot of people in the hifi space don't want to colour their sound with their amps, they want a 'volume knob on a wire', so for them colour is not desirable
@MichaelLenz1 replies to @MichaelLenz1: @@NamelessSmile even best speakers in the world color sound. Room coloring sound. If we review what audiofiles do, we’ll find tons of coloring components in their setups. While properly designed tube amp will have enough wide dynamic range to keep thd on relatively low level. Also my main point was not about reproduction of sound. Statement that tubes are obsolete is wrong. Tubes still widely used in sound production.
@eugeniynibumbum4187: Это всего лишь реклама (
@duncan-rmi: one of the guitar-effect yt channels I follow recently did an A-B test to prove once & for all that the infamous klon centaur overdrive, when used with the settings favoured by one of its more well-known adherents, does absolutely nowt.
I think we could get into it with the audiophile crowd too, if we started to look at what tubes actually add to the signal when they're driven hard enough to distort; the traditional view is that the added harmonics are different in character (even-order, vs odd from silicon, is the typical story). if this is the case, then it ought to be easy & more controllable to do this in software.
there's another aspect, though, which harks back to what I've commented on your other videos & elsewhere, & that's this business of analogue electronics being prone to misbehaviour. this is especially true of analogue repro systems such as tape & vinyl, where the audio is different every time you hear it (noise, w&f, distortion & so on).
I have a belief that there's some sort of audio fingerprinting happening in a psychological realm... unconsciously, our brain notices tiny nuances in the sound that are different each time it is heard, by way of the various things that are, technically, shortcomings of the analogue equipment. this is, generally speaking, far less the case with digital audio.
this line of thinking on my part was triggered by my first ownership of a CD player back in 1990; I had been in the habit of transferring vinyl to cassette for my decent sony walkthing (DD33 since you ask), but found myself forced to buy a CD player when an artist I liked published a new recording with no vinyl option.
as I collected CDs of albums I knew very well & would listen to over & over, I discovered that I quickly grew tired of listening to the CD versions, &- puzzled- began to think about why.
years later, my other half (not old enough to remember significant quantities of vinyl listening) heard something from vinyl when I couldn't find the CD. her reaction was that it sounded "alive".
amused by this, I tried a lump of ¼", a studio master of my own band, & something I knew she'd heard on one of our published CDs. same thing happened.
psycho-acoustics is a wonderful place for marketing people to play, but I think there may be a small fire inside all that smoke...
@aufsesserpremium replies to @duncan-rmi: The early CD players did simply sound horrible, my first was any Philips player sounding bright/flat/harsh/white-grey muddy....a day and night difference was a relativ expensive (middle class) HK Player, I dont remember the model either....the next was a HK HD970 player...using a Blackfin DSP Analog Devices microcomputer with some proprietary algorithm to sample up to 384/32 Bit...eliminating all JItter and estimating the details between the 44,1/16 stuff...as I found out later when using the player as DA Converter (had inputs..) the smart computing took ~ 0,4 sec, that was the delay between input/output...did sound pretty impressive, overwhelming transparent...too much micro stuff in the long run. I bought a Focusride AD/DA for recording and do use it since ~ 10 years, the mid`s are nice.
The DA Converter are, or were, the culprit + the analog section after the DA using cheapest Opamps and stuff...simply changing the 0,50€ Opamps to a LM4562 (2,10 € )...does a miracle....
@EddyTeetree: No its the right acronym becase its Fear created thru Uncertainty and Doubt But I like : Fear and Uncertainty Created Kindlessly Engendering Doubt.😼
@carlsitler9071: I listened to some vintage mono block tube amps through B&W 700 series towers and it sounded wonderful. Better than solid state? Sorry. No A/B. No distortion for me, thanks. No tubes and no vinyl for me but if you like them, enjoy.
@33114567: Can't tell if this guy is sincere or just being ironic all the time.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @33114567: It's a wise person who knows the difference between sarcasm and irony. DM
@spandel100 replies to @33114567: @Audio Masterclass 🤜🤛
@RocknRollkat: Hello DM,
Once again elaborating on my comment from last month, I took it upon myself to build a 6SN7GT tube emulator plugin, complete with thermal noise, etc., and inserted one on 16 channel inputs of my Cakewalk DAW, and also on the output bus.
After taking some noise and distortion measurements I asked myself what the the H**L I was doing, trashing up a perfectly good DAW with early 1940s technology.
Did it sound 'better'? 'Warmer'?
Assuming it did, I'm so used to digital purity that I can't really answer that question.
As an aside, that classic Neve console sound is probably due to Rupert's use of transformers for D.C. isolation in the signal path of his modules. But that's another story....
Best regards,
Bill P.
@1622steve: Tube equipment was common when I began my career. I look at it today and say: "Uh, no, I don't want to go back to that."
@soloperformer5598: Can you do the same with valves?
@billbradleymusic: Your premise is proved wrong by your own words.
@glicmathan1771: There are very real differences that we can hear and feel; not just in comparing two tracks processed differently, but in the overall effect when all tracks are mixed together. The headroom on high end mic preamps is a great example of the “magic” that can infuse a mix. Tubes color and warm the signal just as tape saturation adds it’s own natural compression. Digital is much more fussy and less forgiving. I love digital editing but not much else about digital audio apart from convenience. We are in a “convenience age” for sure. You can’t record in the box exclusively without plug-ins on each track. Much better sounding recordings can be made to tape with just a little compression and reverb on the stereo mix. Low end is notoriously difficult with digital and easy to capture to tape. Many big studios still record drums and bass to tape. Consider that there are all kinds of plug-in analog simulators today, and for good reason. Digital recording is flat and sterile without them. That’s why outboard gear, including tube tech, is still immensely popular. If digital had it all covered as a superior medium, there wouldn’t be this massive plug-in industry geared towards sounding old school (ie analog as exists in the electromagnetic, natural world as processed through our analog ears). Likewise, if today’s music and films were so great, there wouldn’t be so many covers, remakes and “deep fakes” of old content. Its not “old people” complaining that “things used to be better.”They actually WERE better. The technological advancements in the past 150 odd years is unique in human history. For thousands of years there were no recordings at all. Music remained fairly consistent generation after generation. I would argue that the golden age of audio is BEHIND us. It’s all quick and easy, cheap simulation and fakery now, which won’t be helped by AI.
@enewhuis replies to @glicmathan1771: It is going to be a race between 1) advanced modeling with insane processing throughput versus some kind of FPGA-like analog of, uh, analog circuits. Right now we can model ideal op amps no problem. We can simulate entire circuits in a plug-in...like why a real op amp doesn't actually have infinite impedance at the input voltage pins. 2) man-machine interface. I really like reaching over and tweaking a knob instead of rummaging through 100 open windows and trying to remember which virtual mix window has the graphic slider. .......and 3) intentionality: Software may have inifinite potential but having infinite choices doesn't necessarily lead to effective artistry.
@johnmeleleu1813 replies to @glicmathan1771: Sound is much better today.
@Anthony-fr2ub: Playing my strat through a transistor amp is a disgrace !
@MaxCarola: This is great, especially the introduction about the immersion in old fashioned sounds. This is why we still like an SM57 on the snare or on guitar ams. It's so familiar sound!
It seems to me that all the magic is related to that second harmonic distortion and slight saturation that I believe I can easily replicate with a plethora of plugins that I have into my DAW. Just that when it's right the added component is so little that we end up using way more than needed. In the hardware stuff we are never that exaggerated, mostly because of the built in safetyes that don't allow to screw the sound more than a certain level. In the analog world no one really want or actually CAN record 10 dB over a reasonable level without all the red alarm lights of an analog gear scream "WTFAYD"". But I believe that it's a direct translation of old analog techniques into the digital realm without the necessary adjustment of the techniques. Thank you. I subscribed to your channel and I find it really entertaining!
@dfasht1304: PLugins are shyte
@NamelessSmile replies to @dfasht1304: Nope, you must be
@dfasht1304 replies to @dfasht1304: @@NamelessSmile Oh no!!!
@jamesrindley6215: What can tubes do that mosfets can't? I'm a bit surprised to see you buying into the myth of tube "magic". If someone really wants to add a bunch of harmonic distortion to their music then any nonlinear device will do the trick. Surely a single stage mosfet amp with no NFB will do exactly the same as the tube, choose a depletion mode device if you really want to emulate the tube fully. However, I suspect the myth of tube "magic" has more to do with the high output impedance of tube power amps interacting with the variable impedance of speakers and producing bumps and troughs in the frequency response. Such an amp will emphasize certain details and make some instruments stand out - there's your "expansive soundstage". It'll only do this for some recordings of course, meanwhile other recordings will sound much worse. The audiophile will consign these to the category of bad masters which have now been exposed by the superior resolution of the tube amp.
@AudioMasterclass replies to @jamesrindley6215: Popular music as we know it today was founded on tubes, or valves as we call them in the UK. It is certainly possible to emulate the sound of tubes with a variety of solid state devices, and digitally. However, there is a feeling of authenticity about actual tubes that many people like. Even if they can get exactly the same sound in other - perhaps more practical - ways, they will still want what they consider to be the real thing. DM
@jamesrindley6215 replies to @jamesrindley6215: @Audio Masterclass Sure I get it, like that's why most of that tube gear has the glass bottles on the outside so they can be seen. I'd love to do a blind test of a good solid state amplifier and then do the same test with a glowing tube amp visible in the room but not connected.
@demondik: I have an old Digitech 2101 preamp/FX 2 unit rack gear! I took the tubes out of it and put two AMT solid-state tube replacers and my sound has never been better! LOL Now, I had a solid-state Randall RG100 amp for most of my life so, I like cold amps. LOL
@kalhan8644: Choobs
@Lilregpack: i closely compared those 2 drum tracks, they are exactly the same.
@spandel100 replies to @Lilregpack: That was not a good comparison...tubes mostly make an audible difference in the mid and upper frequencies.Listening over YouTube is also a problem in itself.
@sesa2984: This channel is literally just sitting on everything I enjoy most and propagating what bores me to tears. It looked like a perfect channel at first. "Emulation." shudder and click
@mcpribs: As someone who has played guitar and bass for over a quarter century, and own a 60’s Gibson and Airline, respectively, and 70’s Ampeg amplifiers for the loud bits, since I’ve owned my HX Stomp, I almost never play those amps, all which were in need new caps. I never thought I’d see the day where digital technology was enough, Keith Williams of five watt world stated when realizing his Stomp got him 90% of the way there, “90% is still an A.”
I would definitely be intrigued by this device, however. 😉
@morbidmanmusic: Yeah, let's get rid of pesky guitars and drums too!
@jhuc2869: I would avoid using the word ‘better’ and substitute ‘nicer’ Better, to me, means truer to source.
@spandel100 replies to @jhuc2869: It is always and will always be "what sounds good to you"...and has nothing to do with how true it is to the source.No one knows how the true source "sounded"anyway.Moot point.
@jhuc2869 replies to @jhuc2869: @@spandel100 Hmmm, I’ve got a good idea how musical instruments and the human voice are supposed to sound.
If everybody has different tastes and manufacturers are supposed to appeal to them what are the benchmarks for designers? - the only viable goal is accurate reproduction otherwise how should they know what to aim towards?
I appreciate most music is heavily produced but I’d still like to hear as close as possible to what the recording engineer intended. I’m with the pioneers such as Harold Leak and Peter Walker whose intentions were solely to further the quest for minimal distortion and accurate fidelity but I do appreciate there are those who like to add their own flavour, however I certainly wouldn’t buy from brands whose objectives were to colour the sound to certain tastes rather than try to reproduce the signal correctly.
@spandel100 replies to @jhuc2869: @J Huc To get as close to what live music sounds like yes,not true to the source, because we dont know what the true source sounded like.Not dissing anything you said just that when I see that "true to the source"comment being used over and over,it just knocks on the wrong side of my personal logic.Take care.
@jhuc2869 replies to @jhuc2869: @@spandel100 It’s just another way of saying high fidelity :-)
@spandel100 replies to @jhuc2869: @J Huc 👍
@brianmac8260: 850 yoyos? I'll stick with phi-L's Tube Pre plugin. Dev'd by DDMF now.
@RocknRollkat: A 'tube emulator' doesn't emulate an old 1950s studio which employed MANY tubes, not to mention all of the inductors in the signal path.
@zebratroopfan6695: As a guitar player I love tubes. It’s what I play live and I just love the sound.
@Mikexception replies to @zebratroopfan6695: Yes but you love bad tube amplifiers - the worse construction and not succesfull sound the better
@MichaelLenz1 replies to @zebratroopfan6695: @Mikexception why great solid state amps sound like shit then? 😂
@Mikexception replies to @zebratroopfan6695: @Michael Lenz Up to my conclusions (which I elaborated after lot of tests with hi fi audio) it comes from: issues created by phase shifts made by crossovers inside speakers, That is why for electric distorted guitar best is to use one speaker without crossover (as it is done usualy in guitar combos). Solid need two or even three way speaker due to generated more power. Unfortunately that 2-3 way speaker sounds enough weak to justify using bigger power. Circle is closed.
.
Next are issues from resnonaces inside speaker's cabinet and their cooperation with existence of coupling capacitor between output stage and speaker - that one creates own phase shifts, increasing internal resistance allowing more impact of previus. .
Unfortunately it is affecting just at lowest frequencies where all bad happens . . For perfect presentation of guitar , (specialy guitar with linteresting distortions which requires perfect presentation in range 100 - 1000Hz) phases should be as much as possible untouched - in other case created distorted harmonics are damped and it all sounds too flat like typical "Hi fi" with downed middle and foogy "dead" distortions
For electric guitar we need : efficient range 100- 1000Hz and flat not shifted phases. Both conditions are met few times better with tube amplifier because it has output transformer and better loudness for mentioned range. Notice - all this conclusions are for only amplifier with speaker connected - in standard evaluations it is avoided due to too much complication.
@MichaelLenz1 replies to @zebratroopfan6695: @Mikexception I have different results while trying to answer this question.
Since solid state amps can handle huge range of load impendance of speakers, they’re not requiring transformer, which is one of key elements in tube guitar amp that provides additional signal saturation and compression. But I had chance to evaluate solid state guitar amps with transformer in it, so they still were not even close what regular 50 or more watts tube amp has in its coloring and saturated sound.
My conclusion is that solid state devices have static runtime characteristics, while tubes have “randomized” by intensity of input signal, thermal drift, and can be easily boosted, with what I forgot to mention - the footprint of the tube - very prominent and specific harmonics footprint (if I can say so)
Tube guitar amps can be boosted (first cascade can be clipped, and power amplifying tubes can be too). The last fx causes dynamic distortion capabilities. Also the curve of load impedance is not really linear at high frequencies, what makes tube amps less harsh on high output volume.
Also I wabt to add to what was said above, the tubes characteristics differ from choosen bias voltage point, we can operate using cold bias and warm one.
While solid state guitar amps are very rude sounding, badly controllable by player (while playing), and static sounding with unpleasant harmonic distortion.
@Mikexception replies to @zebratroopfan6695: @Michael Lenz You asked me question and I was kind to answer it for you with my best experience. . You did not thank me but criticized me - What is the point?
I am afraid you could not understand my answer and that is why You did not relate to anything what I said. What you say is popular wide belief but not true - theorericaly measuresd characteristisc have little to do with sounding in reality because they do not take 90% details in account.
@MajorWebUser: David – You are one of the clearest speaking audio experts I've come across. I've always been suspicious of the superiority of tubes. I'm an odd American that doesn't like overblown bass or 'colored' sound. You've absolutely nailed it that we've become used to the 'warm' sound of tubes. In such discussions, I often use the simile of light bulbs. Most people find 'true' white light (5000K) too harsh and too blule. While it is actually very close to what we see as sunlight on a clear day, people overwhelmingly prefer warm white (around 2000K) because that's the color of lighting with which they grew up. As you point out, there is no right or wrong. It's a matter of acquired taste. What will be interesting to see as the next decade progresses and class D products and related offerings change the face of audiophile equipment. Your services will become even more important as people attempt to message the sound coming out of their highly adjustable systems. Thanks for posting such worthwhile content!
@Mikexception replies to @MajorWebUser: Average people when looking at tubes "simplify the life" by connecting different view to different sound They tent to put blame for "difference" on tubes.With no proven excuse. I am pretty sure it is childish. Both - solid and tubes color sound but in about 10X different frequency ranges. All this is the result of phase shifts but in tube technology problem is small and a lot of perfect tube amplifiers working with designed speakers in past were produced . Thing is today only a few could listen to them
To solve it in solid technology is impossible. (except when is using output transformer) The reason is speaker cabinet Then with solid amplifieers all pray tor low output impedance and great damping of speakers. which is no possible With tube technology they just are def? No, typical tube amplifier is much better to control bass due to it's design
@starman5754: If you already have some tube or transformer based preamps, you can do this for free by routing an Aux to an external output port of your interface, analog signal into a line level input of the pre (adjust it to taste) and feed it back on an interface input. This is actually fairly common practice on mix buses.
@AnalogICarchitect: If I want or need harmonics I just use Waves Cobalt Saphira. Job done. Using a real tube amp or preamp from a DAW send just sounds like a collosal wate of time, money and effort to me.
@Mikexception replies to @AnalogICarchitect: You can compensate fault of solid amplifier with artificial coloring but it never will lead to perfect sounding in degree in which perfectly designed tube amplifier can do.
@scottcortez1313 replies to @AnalogICarchitect: yes, you can use waves, but using a real tube isn't a colossal waste of time, or money; it is an effort though, all worthwhile art is.
@jimhines5145: Instead of using a tube plugin, have you tried Harrison's Mixbus software? It's one of the best sounding DAWs I have ever heard.
@fferro1983 replies to @jimhines5145: Mixbus sounds great,but it's absolutely not CPU friendly 😭
@jimhines5145 replies to @jimhines5145: @Craig Scott Frost You are absolutely correct. Good mention. Just add the Harrison 32C channel strip plugin to any DAW, and you get the same sound. Or any other tape saturation plugin(s) you desire. I just happen to think the Harrison one sounds the most natural (my opinion only). For novices, any reasonable mix will sound better when using it, as opposed to not using it. With that said, if you use ProTools and decide to use the 32C plugin (or any other), well you would have to use the plug on every channel. Not so convenient. Using mixbus avoids this complication.
@eancurtis9333: I use a hardware 1073 into a tube mic pre in my signal chain.. it does make a huge difference I like things fat n dirty but unfortunately I have to give my mixes to people who master on computers and it looses alot of grit when it's mastered ...I wish people still mastered to 2 inch tape !!!!
@liamporter1137: Thanks for sharing.
@sahinhabesoglu510: So, human ear likes to hear distortion!
@Mikexception replies to @sahinhabesoglu510: At power about 10% of amplifier nominal power distortions are meaningless the same as in solid. Excellent tube sounding is noticable. even at 0,2 W
@paulinboston: How about a tube preamp.
@swangonzalez4797: It's great to see your face finally. Much more engaging. Used to listen to just your voice. Thank goodness for putting audio quality in proper perspective. Cheers
@siliconfuzz: The future is hybrid. We are in a golden age of analog because the newer generations of audio pros realize the value of analog after inheriting the ethos that digital was better from Gen X and some Baby Boomers. The assertion this video makes simply is not where the market is going despite what the speaker's subjective opinion is on the matter. Personally I disagree. Audio production is an art, not a binary application of digital vs analog (tubes). The sum should always be greater than the parts and the journey is material for the outcome.
@billbradleymusic replies to @siliconfuzz: Hallelujah!
@fivechordmusic: Sounds like the phase changed in the example. Just me ?
Love your no BS presentations David :)
@eudonrobinson3970: I have one of these waiting for me at home, can’t wait to try it out tomorrow
@JohnWuMastermind replies to @eudonrobinson3970: So how is it? What r your thoughts after using it for a few days?
@thegroove2000: Thanks paul.