The best listening room in the world - I have it, you don't
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There is something fundamentally wrong with your assertion on the best listening room. I'd say live and recorded merely have their own set of faults. I'm not trying to be rude, just trying to point something out.
Starting from a point of view of lack of reproduction in comparison to the original, this is an obvious choice - just go see it live. This comes from the obsession of audiophiles to make reproduced instruments sound like real ones. But it only works if there's such a thing as real instrument. For example, it wouldn't make much sense in going to a Depeche Mode concert from your perspective. What is a synth supposed to sound like? What is the blue print?
Moving on, say I take your advice and want to listen to Tangerine Dream Stratosfear, am I supposed to just wait until someone decides to make a Tribute to Tangerine and play that exact album? You may laugh, but all of these are lackings of your listening room, not to mention if you had to always come 3.5t hours earlier, music would die out.
And on; say I listen to Lieutenant Kijé and it reminds me of a Woody Allen film from the 70' and this further makes me think how entire soundtrack in that movie was great and it also featured The Love of Three Oranges, may i just get up and go ask the orchestra to play Oranges the next because that inspired me to hear that piece? See what I mean? It is decided for you what, when, in what, order...
I hear a really great part of music, it thrills me and I want to hear it again...
There's more. And this is perhaps the most important one. When music is being recorded, often times more retakes will be recorded until it's all done well. In a live concert, you hear it as bad or as good as it is being played. You are just replacing one set of shortcomings for another. You, obviously being someone who frequents live classical music, know all too well how bad it can get from time to time. Instrument merely sounding as a live instrument is not end all. It's just AN end of A strive, one single strive, to make reproduction sound as live music.
And it's not really for discerning listeners, right? Those venues. Because of all the audience noise. It's just for the thrill (which might as well be what it makes sound different from your recording). It's also a spectacle and spectacles do distort the experience.
A good source - good set of speakers - a well treated and EQd room.
😂👍🏼👌🏼 this is the best video about listening rooms ever 😂
I know a few people that have gone to such extreem lengths to make there listening room as dead as possible, so they would enjoy the recordings as if they where there at the moment of recording. But it still does not sound like a live performance eventhough they think it does, but most of these people have never played an instrument and in a band or orchestra. Some never have seen a concert hall from the inside and talk in terms of, "hearing the accoustics of the concert hall/church/studio", or that they can hear the dimensions of it. 😂
When I tell them that it does not sound anything like live performances, they look like they are seeing water burn. 😳
I have played several instruments in my life from a really jong age in an orchestra and in varying locations from churches, concert halls, sportaccommodations, small community halls, outside on the street and on squares, and no audio setup can bring the sound of the real live performances. Although I have heard a few recordings on high end multichannel homecinema setups that got pretty close, but it is still not quite there.
And for a large part this is due to the tricks of a recording engineer, the use of reverb and tone controles, the way the microphones are placed, how much microphones are used, the ammount of crosstalk between microphones. Therefore recordings are almost never what you would hear when you would have been there.
So stop the hunt for more realistic sound and enjoy more music, preferably live performances 😉🙂
So, off we went to the Proms on Friday night. Didn’t see you there David! Prom 44, Stravinsky Firebird, Shosty piano 2, and a fantastic new work by conductor/composer Samy Moussa. But was it the best listening room in the world, I hear you ask? Was it heck! Bad backs precluded standing for 2 hours, so seated in the stalls (at around 5 o’clock if the stage is 12 o’clock) and the sound was utterly dismal. Distant and horribly spoiled by smeared echoes from the fronts of boxes and the upper tires, close your eyes and the strings were coming from far offstage left…eat your heart out Dolby Atmos! And the slapback echo on the percussion was a real distraction. But did it spoil it? Not a bit - it was a great evening out. Not unlike listening to vinyl - woefully inadequate sound but a real experience. If you want the best listening, just clap on a good pair of cans, turn the lights out and enjoy 16bits at 44.1kkz. If you want an experience, go see it live. The two things are completely different, and completely incompatible.
That isn't a Metallica concert! Shameful. Actually, I like an opera with my orchestra.
We have Ruth Echard Hall here in Clearwater Beach Florida. It isn't as old world beautiful unfortunately.
I live in an anechoic chamber but I had the door closed. Can you repeat what you just said? I missed it.
Why do modern violinists smile all the time? I want an angry violinist, maybe even a pete townshend of violinists
Yes, just don't break that Stradivarius at the end of the show. DM
Could you hear any hiss?😉
So legendary Hall - In august 2015 - as a part of a Danish Radio "pilgrimage" - I visited, for the first and until now only time, the hall, to make a concert-transmission to the danish radiolisteners. The Danish National SymphonyOrchestra, The DR Concert Choir, Violinist Nikolaj Znaider and our chiefconductor Fabio Luisi on the stage. And me as broadcast-sound-engineer and radio-speaker Celine in the small box just beside the BBC speakerbox. Such a beautiful hall that left me speachless and full of awe. Would love to return some day to do it again :-)
Were you there that day, David? :-)
Unfortunately no, but I did hear all five Prokofiev piano concertos in one concert that year. DM
WOW that must have both a long and a great evening in RAH 🙂I tried to link to some photos I took then evening I was there but youtube won´t let the link stay in the tread? Strange since it is google photos 🙂@@AudioMasterclass
@@srenkrabbe2991 Yes, and the piano technician was kept busy. Strange about the links, sometimes links in comments work, sometimes they don't. The mysteries of YouTube. DM
I wonder if anyone from this generation has ever heard an excellent home system.
I heard a McIntosh system driving a pair of Klipsch horns when I was about 20 years old (55 years ago).
That became my benchmark.
Now I knew what was possible.
Audiophile channel goes off-topic: talks about music 😉
Sir can I built home hifi (stereo) speaker by using pro audio drivers ? & what are pros & cons of pro drivers?? Thanks u for all ur videos.. I watch regularly
Ideally this room is shaped as a rectangular prism, spare in furnishings, probably without windows or curtains, and (if wood) church-pew like seeting set symmetrically.
I love the way you identify some of the ridiculous things that audiophiles say. One of the things they say that is a pet peeve of mine is that a certain audio component is more “musical” than another. It’s amazing how some audio amplifiers or speakers can reshape the musicians’s phrasing. Simply amazing.
I’ve also recently been buying some of the BBC recordings made in Albert Hall. One in particular that I really thought sounded great because of the acoustics of the hall was there recording of BBC symphony of whales, performing Stravinsky, Rite of Spring.
Regarding speakers, certainly not 'phrasing' (being an impossibility), but certainly 'timbre' in which one speaker would sound more 'musical' (e.g. natural) than another. Those who listen to live performances should surely be able to hear this nuanced difference in reproduced sound, isn't that so? Nothing amazing about that.
As a musician it's a little insulting for someone to say an electronic device can somehow be more "musical" than some other electronic device and it shows misuse and a lack of understanding of the word musical. I get that you give some of these reviewers a pass on that since it is sometimes difficult to verbalize sounds we hear. But if you're a reviewer it would be a good idea to find a better way to express yourself. It would be acceptable to say a particular component seems to allow me to enjoy music more or something similar but to say it IS musical is ridiculous. Additionally, in an ideal situation a speaker shouldn't have it's own timbre and a flat frequency response would be ideal although it's not the only consideration in the pursuit acceptable suspension of disbelief. And of course I was being sarcastic and hyperbolic when I referred to an audio component having the ability to control phrasing. I've been reading audio equipment reviews for many, many years and the ones I respect the most are the ones that are based on measurements as well as some added subjective commentary. But some reviews I read, especially lately and especially on YouTube, are an endless stream of subjective opinions (but not usually stated as opinions), adjectives, and adverbs with little, if any, basis in empirical data. Additionally, if a reviewer is to say that something is more "detailed" then I'd like to ask in what way? And where specifically? Can you identify this extra detail you hear? I'd guess that most cannot.
But then we all know at that most, maybe all, reviewers are here to gain more viewers for their channel in any way they can and most of what they do and say is for entertainment value. So, they can say whatever they want and if it's more understandable for their audience when they say some audio component is more musical then I can see their rationale although I still find it ridiculous use of the word. @@Mrsteve4761
Ha! All that, and I bet that you still haven tried the newest Castrated Copper USB cable like I just bought. And most importantly, no pollution from audiophiles. Love your videos.💕
Your/our house will not match Disney Hall or Chandler.
Thank you yet again for another refreshing point of view on audio, and the ladies of course 😂
Yeah nothing beats a full orchestra in a good acoustically built hall. It's unbelievable how loud it is and how much the contra bass vibrates through your whole body. Experiencing it live vs recording is about the same as making love vs watching a recording ;)
Bravo 👏 IVE been saying the same thing on my channel 😂 last month, I got to play at the Barbican, I wonder if you were there 🤔
I think every music lover has it. Tchaikovsky Concert Hall in Moscow is mine.
indeed, there is no substitution for hearing the music coming directly from the instruments within the very room, where the music is being created and of course, even better when the room itself is perfect I envy you, as I will never be able to attend the music as it is being performed in this venue that you shared with us today I can but attend live music in my own home hometown, but it will be spectacular nonetheless.
simply enviable / thank you
What an amazing way to spend an afternoon / evening! Thank you for sharing!
The Royal Albert Hall is a national treasure. I'm convinced I would not travel to London (from the states) without having an evening planned at the RAH. I hope to do so one day. All the concert goers are carrying a digital computer in their pocket that they hopefully completely ignore when the music starts, while taking in the most sublime "audiophile" experience ever.
Absolutely beautiful architecture. Thank you for sharing the experience.
I too have heard many of the world's best listening rooms, and there were plenty of Quads there too. Perhaps not the best for the Proms, but absolutely the best for many records: The control rooms where they were mixed. The rooms can't be easily duplicated but how can any audiophile gear be superior to the Quads, Macintoshes, Tannoys, Altechs, NS10s, "Horrotones," or other studio gear the producers were hearing when they made the records? Well, alright, maybe some of it's superior to those horrotones but you all know what I mean, eh?
For comment readers, “Horrotones” or “Horrortones”, are Auratones - small speakers meant to replicate the sound of, well, small speakers. DM
Class of Mr. Crap again
What fun! The RAH one of my best listening rooms too, but a long bus ride from Australia.Thank you so much. By the way, what year was that?
Nice. The best hifi device is no device. :)
Lucky you! Concertgebouw in Amsterdam for me. Not the best but close, very very close...
Haven’t been but I’ve heard it plenty in recordings and broadcasts. I think it might cost a bit more though to get as good a listening spot. DM
How can I import those tens of thousands of coughing, talking, squeaking chairs, eating and drinking noises,etc into my living room? I too want a perfect room.
At last, the perfect application for Dolby Atmos. DM
@@AudioMasterclass never in my home
Is it really your listening room, if you can't determine what music is played ? :-)
techmoans low budget brother.
The assistants remind me of Samantha - I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue's lovely scorer.
You are too close and too low. You should try getting a seat in the first row. The seat is higher and far enough back to hear it all. The first row is the best listening seat in the "listening room".
Thank you but I know what I like. DM
Thank You, but you are wrong.@@AudioMasterclass
@@paulinboston This is a high level of arrogance don't you think? My personal preference is wrong? I think you should avoid my channel in future. DM
My, my. It's my football and I'm going home if we don't play by my rules. Now that's arrogance.
Now, back to the subject. We are talking about "listening rooms". And what is the magic word, "Listening".
Once again, you are mistaken. The Proms may be the place you enjoy the music the most, but finding a seat in the first row-center is the better "Listening Room" location.
My opinion that sitting in the first row-center is a better "listening room" than standing in the Proms is not arrogant, but a statement of fact.
Calm down! Take your pretty assistant out for dinner or something.@@AudioMasterclass
Well the concerts how do I go to have PA speakers so there is that
what a great venue! an experience to rival Woodstock.
@6:08 ......Emmmmm....I don't think Sir Henry Wood founded the Proms in 1985. 1905 might be nearer the date. Or did you mean that bust was from 1985?..... Debbie the Editorial Assistant messed up here - either way - in allowing this confusion.
If you look closely you'll see that Debbie put a correction in the bottom left corner. DM
Very nice, but surprised you did not throw in a little honorable mention toward the Father Willis pipe organ and it's commanding presence over the entire Hall.... That said from a pipe organ builder here in the states going on 35 years with the same firm 😊
LOL. You rock! Could I test your listening room for a bit with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBGaFjQeycM
I have only once been in the Royal Albert Hall and it wasn't for a concert unfortunately. I would love to visit a concert in the Hall and hope I can schedule one next season. Fortunately I have the option of the Concertgebouw close to me which is a good alternative. I hope you would agree with me ;-) Great video as always!
Is that a pair of microphones I spy in front of the soloist?
You have sharp eyes indeed. For the TV and radio broadcast. DM
I thought your AI horse are not present in this. I was wrong.
Horse? I'm thinking of getting an AI dog but a horse would get in the way. DM
@@AudioMasterclass @8:45 that does not look like two dogs
Male music, performed by very good females. Why?
Your knack with tongue in cheek, sublime, word smithing keeps me coming back, no matter the subject or your actual viewpoint. If more people had such a sense of humor, We'd all be better off. I really appreciate it.
Agreed..alot of the time the technicals go over my head, but this does not detract from watching. He knows his stuff and is so entertaining.i pick up snippets of info that benefit my audio knowledge. Long may he continue. D'ooooh😂
I'm afraid the closest I will be able to come to this are my Blu-rays of Joe Bonamassa in 2009 and Eric Clapton's 70th birthday concert, both at Royal Albert Hall. I live very far away from London in Calgary, Alberta so visiting even once in a long while is out of the question. But you have a good time on my behalf. Spending five hours waiting around before a concert is something I have no desire to partake in, ha, ha, ha! 🎸
That's the best way to hear music. I used to live near the Boston symphony hall and would walk by it 4 times a day and never been in it once but after this I have to get tickets and jump on the train and go see it live. My music tastes have changed and I can appreciate that kind of music instead of just metal and rock
I had a rare treat recently, I was at the airport to pick up a friend (around 3am) and after I entered the waiting lounge (that I thought was empty except for me) and making my way to the observation windows, heard the most mesmerizing cello music. My initial thought was what an amazing audio system this place has, where is the sound coming from??.. I turned around to seek out the origin, it was not a recording. For 20 minutes I got to listen to a cello player practicing in the corner (I wish I knew who it was, they were amazing). People can spend all the money they want on audio gear; it can’t compare to the real thing.
The Bruch violin concierto, masterpiece. I only went to the Albert once for the 1812 with real canons,
I went to the 1812 in the Royal Festival Hall. They gave us paper bags and prompted us when to bang them. It was a kids' concert but fun for grownups too. DM
@@AudioMasterclass I was on the lawn at the Hatch Shell in Boston for the 4th of July many years ago, and they always close with the 1812 Overture, with the Massachusetts National Guard supplying the 105mm "auxiliary percussion." 🤣
Are you trying to tell us you wouldn't prefer sitting in your undies, sipping on some warm beer, munching popcorn while lounging in your listening salon as your Bluetooth earbuds try to keep up with your dialup modem?
I enjoy what I like to call my home cinema in the winter months. DM
I understand your argument. Nevertheless, my idea of best listening room wouldn't have 5000+ other listeners in it.
As to Royal Albert Hall, I personally prefer the acoustics in Wigmore Hall (the correct seats are crucial here especially with solo harpsichord/piano performances), Cadogan Hall, St John's Smith Square etc.; a bit more intimate but still with atmosphere. You may have guessed I'm more into smaller orchestral performances 😉
The Wigmore Hall is lovely but personally I don’t like to be further back than row D or E. I don’t feel sufficiently involved in the performance. I’ve been to some great masterclasses and competitions though that aren’t so well attended and the seats I like were excellent value. Oddly enough the Wigmore knows me as David Mellor PC KC. Can’t think why. DM
Some of my best music experiences have been in places like The Sage or The big Theatre in Gothenburg. Unfortunately most of my favourite musicians like Dave Gilmour, Kate bush, REM etc etc who have long since retired or have long left this world. As an AUDIOPHILE i'm one of few that has a fully treated listening room where i can enjoy listening to David Mellor and most of my favourite music.
I really love this channel since i feel that i'm stuck between both camps as an AUDIOPHILE and hobby musician who has both played live and recorded in a studio a long time ago.
Great video as usual, keep up the good work 🙂
McCartney has retired? Thanks for the tip. I was going to see him in Melbourne this November.
@@andrewmacdonald3667 Ooooops slight mistake there! Enjoy your concert! 🙂
@@ac81017 Thank you.
The royal albert hall was never built by acousticians and used to suffer bad acoustics. It sounds like there are much better concert halls out there which have been optimised for the best sound quality. But even then, it is a fallacy to say that it is a better listening room than your hifi. So what if you want to listen to 99% of the kinds of music most of us listen to which is recorded in the studio? Theres no concert hall you can visit to listen to that. Which is why hifi exists. So I suggest you get yourself a state of the art hifi sytem and listening room if you want to enjoy most of your recordings because theres no other way.
I would LOVE to attend a concert at the Royal Albert Hall, but sadly that is vanishingly unlikely to ever happen. I have however attended concerts at places like the Arie Crown Theater. There is simply nothing like hearing music performed live in a properly constructed venue. For my normal listening experiences however, quality headphones are as close as I can get to being there because there are basically no added room effects (despite having "open" backs). So whatever was recorded and then reproduced through my equipment is what I get. Mind you, I am not complaining... 😊 Excellent video as always. Thank you..!
Love the channel BTW, but this is the best experience in a hall with fine acoustics. Can't wait for your next episode on this channel!
I was privileged to attend a Proms Concert in 1979 while on tour with a youth concert band, and heard Sir Michael Tippett conduct his own Child of Our Time and Lutoslawski conduct his own Les Espaces du sommeil. A most memorable experience.
Sir Michael spoke to me once. I was sat at my mixing console. I don’t remember the exact words but it was along the lines of “I’d like to learn what all those knobs do.” DM
Never seen any photos of the inside of that place. Now I know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall.
Once again, more than good enough will beat the pants off of unobtainable perfection. The zealous pursuit of the very last decimal place of accuracy and precision is for the science and engineering of things like the Large Hadron Collider, microchip manufacture, space exploration and exotic mathematics. Your living room need not apply, unless it's on Mars.
Haha. Like this one a lot! 🙂
How many cell phones were going off?
Zero. Not even mine. DM
So what is the %THD+N for that room with all those people in it?
I think the guy playing the red oboe was a little sharp#... But I may need a better DAC. 😋
There’s no better way to insult a bassoonist than to call his instrument a red oboe. DM
@@AudioMasterclass lol, I don't really get it but thanks for the response. =].
@@AudioMasterclass Oh, I see... A bassoonist playing a red Oboe would probably be a rare bird indeed.
The best listening room consists of a great DAC, headphone amp and pair of incredible open back headphones. A good comfortable recliner helps a lot too. And the wife doesn't complain. 😅
Love Bruch. Had the opportunity to attend a concert in the Royal Albert Hall when I traveled to London back i 2013. Hope to get such an opportunity again.
The listening room is more then just optimised acoustics.
It’s a place of retreat and an escapism from the pressures of daily life.
We must remember that we listen with more then our ears, our other senses are in tune when listening critically to music.
The only time I listen critically is when troubleshooting. The rest of the time I just kinda let it happen...
Evelyn Glennie would agree, lookup Touch the Sound. Listen with your whole body :)
Lol, AI" Beauties" dissing you . well done Sir! ...and Thanks for the history /experience/ auditory lesson!
Now that’s how you play violin .. and that’s a hug !
Thanks for sharing Dave! 👨🏻
Dave, how do you keep the noise floor down with all those people breathing and writhing in their seats?😉
I really enjoyed this video.
I like the sound of records and speakers, in a way more than instruments.
You British are so classy … love it 🇺🇸
That is a good thing. Hope you enjoyed it.
Nice trolling tho. There I was waiting to compare your vision on the best listening room with my Yamaha a4a and v6a with my Dali Oberon speakers. But who can compare with that? Standing ear to instrument! #jealous
The Yamaha receivers have lots of scene enhancers to mimic concert halls tho. I use Munich hall for the living room. The soundstage is as if the music is coming from the couch. But can't compare to your experience.😂
I promise there’ll be a video on listening rooms soon. DM
What! You mean you did not take your personal mobile recording setup to capture the best listening room in the world? FAIL! 🤦♂😂 Just kidding, I am sure you had a lovely evening.
The Royal Albert Hall is unfortunately the only major venue in London I haven’t recorded in. I was booked once but the concert was cancelled 😢DM
Would have great if recorded with one of my SR3D binaural microphones!
Just recorded a church in my local town, and it sounds fantastic - go on, have a listen!
Lucky you to be there at the Albert
@@NewGoldStandard I take it you checked out the video? If you did which mic did you prefer? I like the dummy head as it seems to have a better bass response even though they all use the same capsules 😜
@@sr3d-microphones I agree about the bass, but that whole video sounds really nice. That's an impressive setup you have.
@@NewGoldStandard Thanks very much, I worked hard in design and research development, I still tweak things now and then, but my mics are very popular with ASMR artists around the world, though I am pushing them to the layperson with I think are inspirational videos, where the auditory experience is kind of captured, there are other microphones on the market that I compete with, though I believe they are overpriced and not quite designed correctly, as the ear is a vital aspect of binaural audio and the placement of the capsule is very important, esp behind the Tragus, where most other manufacturers simply do away with. I've asked this creator about his opinion of these mics, but he's not biting! he's ghosting me lol
@@sr3d-microphones Forgive my ignorance, but you make microphones? I don't know much about ASMR beyond the memes.
My favorite halls are Air Studios, where most of my favorite film scores are recorded with the LSO, and Glasgow City Hall with the Royal Scottish Orchestra. Those are two of the best room sounds in my opinion. But any room larger than 65 feet will do because that’s the length of a 20 hertz wave, and any smaller room results in room pressurization, which causes standing wave/room modes.
FWIW ... the first resonance at 20hz is at 1/4 wavelength or 16' 3" ... 4.9 metres.
The one that gives me fits is 60hz ... 18' 4" ... 5.6 metres ... Any idea how many North American rooms are 12 x 18 feet? Hum City!
Sticking it to the fools, Bravo !......cheers.
:) I loved this video.
Hey ! that's my listening room too - but I haven't been there for decades now 😢 (not so easy now, from Yorkshire...)
I'm surprised that violinist didn't break her back twisting about like that...
I’ll have more to say about this in an upcoming video. DM
Down to earth at its best this channel!
Wonderful place to be. Enjoy! Nevertheless, respect also for HIFI, as some of us not being able to be where you are, or a similar scenario, do appreciate HIFI getting in the way at home and try to move our souls to the rythms of the magic of music.
Каждому аудиофилу свой Альберт-холл!!! Every audiophile has an Albert Hall!!!
Ahh yes, this vid reminded me of that long running battle between Floyd Toole (an acoustics engineering expert) and Ethan Winer (a room treatment salesman) about what's best for the perfect listening room. Winer whined (and still does) a lot about how a multitude of acoustic panel, bass traps and various other baffles filling up your room and wall spaces (preferably bought from his company) was the better solution, compared to Toole's supposedly flawed science based arguments re pyschoacoustics, speaker types and positioning. Having watched and read up on that at the time (including Winer's vids of his own rooms etc, with panels, pads, traps plastered everywhere) I'm going to go with the man of science rather than the salesman :)
There is a just-developing branch of both these guys arguments ... "Stealth Acoustics"... the idea of putting together an ordinary looking multi-purpose room but using specialty padded wall papers, drapes, furniture and even wall art to make the room more hospitable to both people and speakers.
Panino. Well done you for even bringing it up. I hope you enjoyed the Proms.
Great stuff!!! Loved the autograph comment - nice touch.
Well, that certainly leaves out my living room where I am stuck with recordings featuring what someone else wanted me to hear and playlists that are a constant jumble of randomized surprises, but, conveniently giving me access to a lavatory where I can exercise my old bladder with frequent urinations.
Oddly though ... I tend to enjoy it all just fine.
Personally, I don’t enjoy my old urinary tract !!😉
LOL ... which is why I'm so happy to be near Crane's convenience! 🚾
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Side note: did you know Chevy Chase was born into the family that owns Crane Plumbing?
Oooookay ... another piece of useless information stuck between my ears. Thanks?
Also, did you know the modern toilet was invented by a guy named Thomas Crapper?
😵💫👍I hear that !😆
I'd take a slice of cake for sure! What a great video, thanks for being a real legend.
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